Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

A preview of the newest features and previous build notes.

Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby Jumper » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:05 pm

Thanks for the reply CheM,

The reason WM don't use magma (although awesome in its debuff) is that if it gets resisted, you a toast (such low damage even with the 10% increase). As for playing a justie, any opening had to be shards or grasp or some combinatioin or that. Getting shards on a justie is paramount! What's the point of extra damage (magma) if you never hit again. Also, getting fire dot procs are also crucial (which magma doesn't guarantee even with ignite 3). So there are priorities that we need against jc.

As for alternate styles of play (I assume you mean 1h jc and 1h wm) I think the huge restriction here is enchants materials and the inability to experiment with enchants. I.E. I can't afford to try different combinations of enchants like initiative/ap, kb/defense/stat res., trying 1h and block....blah blah blah. My enchants are locked in a set of gear and too expensive to reenchant a second set (not to mention with 80 gems in my inventory how am I to have new sets of gear?????) Furthermore, I still need to do pve to remain competitive, so must prioritize there.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future, but the choice you guys made with making abilities free to change made pvp interesting, the next step is a viable way to move enchants (That were earned btw with gs already in most cases). There is nothing more discouraging than getting a level 9 enchant then having to pay exhorbant costs to move to new gear.

That's my 2 cents, remember that allowing for versatility and experimentation will make pvp more attractive and enjoyable for all.
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby _ACID_ » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:24 pm

CheMClarc wrote:Juggernaut's cooldown was pushed back a rank because we did not like the interaction between being able to use the ability then directly use it again once the buff wore off by using heroic will. This was a concern when launching 2.1 but we wanted to see how players used those abilities together. Our pvp analytics showed that Justicars had an increased winning rate over War Mages once that combination was possible. The minor nerf only allows a small opening for both classes to get status effect abilities in if Justicars do not build status resistance to deny that chance.

Condemn was not supposed to be slower but faster, this will be fixed. We wanted to increase the speed of Condemn so that Justicars will be able to quickly apply Wrath to increase their damage output with their magic abilities.

Our pvp analytics showed that the majority of War Mages were not using the ability, Magma Jet, which has a powerful debuff that can be used to turn the tide of battle against the other classes that have higher armor values. This minor damage increase will hopefully help Mages weaken Justicars so that their direct damage increases when Juggernaut is up.

We didn't change anything with Shadow Walkers because they currently have a higher win ratio against Justicars than we would like to see. The results of our analytics are a bit skewed with the 9/10 gear set bonus that occurred when players used the T17 Pirate event main hand sword and the fact that T18 PvE gear came out as well. A bug fix with Arcane Shield will also help War Mages against Shadow Walkers since it wasn't fair that defend was mitigated when Arcane Shield triggered during the defend.

We believe that the new T18 Coliseum gear will help level out the playing field between classes at the higher end of the leagues while the mid level characters and might are very close to being quite even. Making drastic changes to any of the classes would just result in more changes down the road. We also needed to take into consideration that not every player uses the correct or has access to the same abilities, enchantments and gems that we would like to see used while they are improving their characters. We understand that some players are committed to one style of play but there are a few styles of play that are not being used that would benefit players when fighting against particular class set ups.

We will be following the results of the changes and listen to player feedback as Season 2 really gets going.


First and foremost... Juggernaut: Everyone is saying it needed to be nerfed. With the vast array of effects the others have, it was necessary. If we don't juggernaut immediately we get a slow and time void so at a disadvantage, if we do then after 1s we get frozen then defend, shatter and snap cast. By the way, for mages laughing and saying they needed a boost, most snapcasts produce crits, and not always possible to defend it. Even without snapcasts, from gold 1 and up, mages can chain crit and kill in 2 moves comfortably.

The condemn issue is supposed to be a buff and I guess it's supposed to help us, but only if you are a magic justi, us melee types are royally F****d.

The feedback never gets listened to else there wouldn't be so many complaints. If you are suggesting that we buff ourselves with the status resist enchant,make it easier for us to get them with something for onslaught...

War Mage record was Honaj with 14,100. SW I'm unsure of, but with elixirs and pots and crits, justi can't manage more than 5k. I gave you all a recommendation and how to match the classes with them. If you don't fix them for pvp, then do it for pvp. The different styles of play could be used but only if the player could check the opponent beforehand.

I'm sick and tired of bitching about things now but if I get a forum ban, at least I know you listened, and maybe it may sink in.

Anyways, either fix pvp, or fix pve, either way, justis would feel better.
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby Jumper » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:42 pm

Venan_Fluxed_Justi_AGAIN wrote: If we don't juggernaut immediately we get a slow and time void so at a disadvantage, if we do then after 1s we get frozen then defend, shatter and snap cast. By the way, for mages laughing and saying they needed a boost, most snapcasts produce crits, and not always possible to defend it. Even without snapcasts, from gold 1 and up, mages can chain crit and kill in 2 moves comfortably.


You still get your jugg right away and avoid shards and void. You just need help with rotations.

lol.... gold up?????? You clearly have never gotten to platinum or masters. There is no such thing as a 2 shot kill (unless you're LastEmporor jusite)

Also, I never (and by never, I mean NEVER) see wm use shatter.

The magma boost is hardly a boost. The effects of magma are from the debuff, not the initial damage.
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby Mvader » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:51 pm

CheMClarc wrote:Juggernaut's cooldown was pushed back a rank




I see mr Admin plays mage or has mage friend with fresh ideas.

Sorry for post it direcly but for all time and money i spend i fell hurt.
Im sorry for Top Warriors in League that put more effort than me to fight in coloseum

PVP should be more and more balanced, and this change make it other way.

Similar maight justies are weakest class in game now beat by sw and wm.


According small opening:

Our pvp analytics showed that Justicars had an increased winning rate over War Mages once that combination was possible. The minor nerf only allows a small opening for both classes to get status effect abilities in if Justicars do not build status resistance to deny that chance.


Beside resist enchant business, ill try to help and show you, your bless balanced opening rotation maybe it will help, mage froz shard warrior need to jugg whats funny in brutal on 0,9 ;(, if i alow on begining im done

than we coming to your: allows small opening--> with quicker wm ice grasp – is it balanced ?
and directly use of snap cast once the hit just after stun off by ice grasp, whats enough to finish fight.

Mr Admin set me to normal please.


may
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby DreamingDæmon » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:18 pm

I've been inclined away from PvP anyway (due to multiple gear / enchants), but this seals the deal.

The suggestion to become a magic Justi utilising Wrath and Spirit attacks is worthless to Justis who have invested heavily in melee builds / gems / enchants.


What really irks is that the biggest other impact of increasing Jugg cooldown is in LoB onslaught*, where Justi is hugely underpowered compared to other classes already. So our near-as-dammit full year of not being able to even start to compete in Onslaught phases is reduced even further (Jugg vs PoB in particular was very useful, now less so).


*now and again I have e and no available GV raid, so it'd be nice to hit an LoB for essence.
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby Thë_Täxmän_Cän » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:48 pm

Can you imagine how screwed a spirit jc is right now? I can... cause i am a spirit jc... I got a slower condemn... I got an extra second on jugg(which by the way, an sw can damm near seal the win in that 1 second). Granted that will help balance the ratios against mages but that kills us even more so with sws. And all this after saving over 70k marks for this patch AND spending 25 dollars in ench transfers... I feel very screwed. It needs to be fixed within 2 weeks or I will not be playing anymore.
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby Illy_the_Red » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:14 pm

Jumper wrote:
Venan_Fluxed_Justi_AGAIN wrote: If we don't juggernaut immediately we get a slow and time void so at a disadvantage, if we do then after 1s we get frozen then defend, shatter and snap cast. By the way, for mages laughing and saying they needed a boost, most snapcasts produce crits, and not always possible to defend it. Even without snapcasts, from gold 1 and up, mages can chain crit and kill in 2 moves comfortably.


You still get your jugg right away and avoid shards and void. You just need help with rotations.

lol.... gold up?????? You clearly have never gotten to platinum or masters. There is no such thing as a 2 shot kill (unless you're LastEmporor jusite)

Also, I never (and by never, I mean NEVER) see wm use shatter.

The magma boost is hardly a boost. The effects of magma are from the debuff, not the initial damage.


I see plenty of WM use shatter. Not saying it's the majority but some do use it after grasp. Similarly, I see Magma Jet a fair bit too. It sounds like it's different in Masters.

The rock-paper-scissors thing does hold up. It's discussed in PvP chat and on here a lot. Generally speaking WM are very strong against SW (I know this from Plat I-III), SW strong against Justicar (as CheM said) and Justicars strong against WM. It is also true that WM tend to get much higher crits...even Purao at his worst can't wipe out most of your health in 2-3 hits.

I'm glad to see some dev comment though - when changes provoke such debate, it is good that devs get involved to give some background to the issue.
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby DiMoSauR » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:15 pm

Well,since Sw have a higher winning ratio * than u like* against JC ,why don't u FIX us then??????? But u nerf us instead??? Again showin that u don't care about minority :-(
And how about onslaught that we've struggled all this time? You all know that a WM and a Sw HALF our might get more rpp per 10E in each round,this means it's STILL costin us DOUBLE amount of GS to keep up :-S Does it have to be another 6months before u consider that?
That SHOULD HAD BEEN your FIRST priority not nerf us on pvp :-S
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby _ACID_ » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:19 pm

See... Ily knows ;) it's completely different in masters to the rest of the leagues. But the rock paper scissors thing is strange because I do better vs sw as a justi.

Dimo, exactly as I said, it really frustrates me with that, and I spoke to beeks about it with the math to sort it... He said he'd bring it up to the other devs... Apparently not :(
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Re: Update 2.3.0 - Server Maintenance - December 2nd, 2014

Postby Derrin_Watson » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:37 pm

I would welcome a fix on Condemn and was surprised to see the slow down.

I am interested in the notion that the loot is better in phase 2 than it had been. Perhaps it is, but I'm not at all sure it is good enough compared with the much easier and faster phase 3. My current statistics show an average of about 450 silver/round in phase 2 vs. 967 in phase 3. As far as essence goes (treating 1 pure = 10 refined = 100 essence) the essence in phase 2 was 15.9/round where in phase 3 it is 29.9. There are plenty of players who would be tempted by that kind of differential to hold off for phase 3.
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