Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Click » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:57 pm

Alright I've updated my original post to include some things I've learned since and adjust the formulas a bit.

I am going to need more data for this to become more accurate, but I'm also waiting to see if the level cap will be raised in 1.6. If so, I think it may be best to wait a bit and see what the new curves look like.
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Possessed_Mithrid » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:54 am

I will confirm that your Haste equation is accurate over the whole range and various Hero Tokens.
In fact it correctly predicts the true REAL soft cap of 45.02 Base Haste at Max Investment of 9040 points.
(not accounting for guild bonuses).

For anyone interested in knowing, the max Base Haste % without modifiers is 45.02% at 9040 Invested Points

Incidentally, great job on the formula, I was too lazy and just wanted to curve fit, but you actually used the announced soft caps as an asymptote

Solving your haste formula for Investment Points as a function of % Funct_haste(X%) = (999.5*X%)/(50-X%)
Considering 50% the soft cap, your formula approaches a singularity at that point (the divide by 0 in the denominator).
To get a haste % of 49.99% would require ~5000000 investment points; that soft cap is a far ways off. :D

Excellent approach. I commend you for that, it is better than what I did which was just curve fit the data.
Curious what inspired you to approach it like that, especially considering that you correctly guessed that their soft cap would be impossible to reach.

Question on your Crit formula, was your analysis taken from a SW or a WM?
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Click » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:44 am

Thanks! The idea came from me reading often about how people keep stacking haste and appear to get closer and closer to the soft cap but no one was able to quite reach it. Then I looked at the curve on my data and it looked like if it continued further it would cap out at about .50 as crit rating approached infinity.

All my data is from my level 30 Shadow Walker but I didn't think to take HT into account. :(
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Possessed_Mithrid » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:03 pm

HI Mcluvin,
So I am faced with a dilemna...I analyzed your crit formula and its is spot on for 1200HT but is not matching my lower investment level mages...considering that your analysis was based on a SW with low HT investment...I believe that your formula is correct and there is an issue with my data caused by :
1. My data is older data so its possible that crit tables have changed in previous updates
and/or
2. WM has an adjusting Crit scale where as SW do not.
This is an open item to investigate, but I suspect things have changed in updates since I collected my low level Crit data, making that data set invalid.

For now, I would say your crit curve is accurate, at least for WM with full HT investment.
Max base crit is pegged at 43.98%

Also your crit power matches all my data over full ranges.
I would suggest adding an additional set of parenthesis by way of simple syntax clarity:
Crit Power% = [[50*CritPower]/[1395.43+CritPower]]+150

At the end of the day, excellent job, all your formulas do a great job matching my data sets.
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Click » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm

Whew! What a relief! I thought I was going to have to collect endless amounts of data to figure these formulas out! Thank you for taking time to check on their accuracy :) as I only have a <10k might character, any help from higher might players is very much appreciated.

Since it is confirmed that the level cap will not be raised in 1.6 I will be continuing to fine tune formulas that don't seem quite right, especially the Melee/Magic formulas (if that's even possible, small fluctuations are hard to trace without enough data within a small range of might/melee values) and readjust if anything changes in 1.6.
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Bbbb » Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:09 pm

This thread needs to be stickied.
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Lady_Katy » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:25 am

Bbbb wrote:This thread needs to be stickied.


Done :)
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Bbbb » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:39 am

I played with the Crit Power formula and it matched my gut feeling which is that stacking crit power doesn't give you much bang for the buck even on the blue slots. I have a couple of t5 resist gems from the Xmas shard bug. I don't see much point in replacing them.

If someone disagrees, I'd love to see their reasoning because I feel like I am missing something.
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby EricM » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:09 pm

Bbbb wrote:I played with the Crit Power formula and it matched my gut feeling which is that stacking crit power doesn't give you much bang for the buck even on the blue slots. I have a couple of t5 resist gems from the Xmas shard bug. I don't see much point in replacing them.

If someone disagrees, I'd love to see their reasoning because I feel like I am missing something.



Do we know how exactly crit works in this game yet? Say I have 200% crit power. When I normally attack, I assume I'm doing around '100%' damage give or take like 10% range either way. When I crit, is it similar where I do 200% +- 10%? Or is is crit power more like a crit ceiling where I can do anywhere from 100% to 200% on a crit? I feel like my crits tend to be all over the place. Sorry if that's a confusing question.

Because, if it's a ceiling, than yeah, you're right bbbb, it really isn't very useful.
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Re: Stat Calculations and Diminishing Returns

Postby Possessed_Mithrid » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:53 pm

Tennis,
To the best of my studies, crit power does not create a ceiling range, it is a multiplier to final damage:
Final damage = Regular attack (final calculation) * Crit power factor.
So for example: if an attack has a damage of 6000-6500, and your crit power is 180%
You can expect your crit damage to be roughly 1.8* (6000-6500) = 10800 - 11700.
NOTE: that the 500 damage variation range in the regular attack became a 900 damage variation range in the final crit, so you can see a wider range of final numbers during a crit because the damage variation is also multiplied. You have to consider this when your just reading the numbers as they fly by.

Bbbb,
I have all blue slots filled with crit pwr gems but that is simply because the resists are fairly useless to me as well. I definitely do not stack blue gems in the misc slots...there is no point. Your not missing anything either...between 2000-5500 pts crit pwr investment, final crit pwr % increases by 10%. (from 179% to 189%)....that is not a huge difference especially when your already at 179%, so unless you enjoy having the resist gems and don't want to upgrade them, I wouldn't bother upgrading your resist blue gems to Crit pwr until you've finished doing everything else you would like with your CV first.

My thought anyway.

I would make one exception to that thought...say your crit attack is just shy 500-1000 pts of one hit killing say GK or Direhorn, and an extra 5%-10% crit pwr can get you over that bump for the one hit kill...then I would be all for upgrading...Its always nice to one hit kill the bosses. ;)
(Sadly my WM will never be able to one hit kill LoB, Damn you Justis!!! Jealous :mrgreen: )
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