Suggestion balances in pvp.

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Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Kenner » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:36 pm

Here are some suggestions which would make pvp more balanced in my opinion.

1: provoke gets a 100% accuracy boost so I cannot trigger backswing anymore and is only used to control timers more efficiently.

2: accuracy also prevent Blocks, an accurate strike sure isnt a strike on the shield. Also at this point with Inquisitor's being able to have 57% Block chance while not defending classes like Justi/WM/FK/inq need something to counter this.

3: make stagger just like any other status resistable. It already lasts an eternity so making it resistable would prevent permanent stagger.
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Fara » Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:43 pm

+1. Especially the third point. Stagger is virtually permanent. It should be resistible and shorter
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Illy_the_Red » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:51 pm

The first is a good suggestion. A lot of those new abilities seem to favour some classes rather than others too.

How can a toon have 57% block without defending? If it's from enchants, it's their choice to invest in them. 1H specs seem a lot more tanky anyway. Accuracy does need changing to reflect its effect on dodge but they may not choose to do that with block. There needs to be a benefit from shields, there are too many reasons already to go 2H. As is normally fired at people in pvp, if a build type is causing someone a problem it's usually because you aren't able to counter it.
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Kenner » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:44 am

Illy_the_Red wrote:The first is a good suggestion. A lot of those new abilities seem to favour some classes rather than others too.

How can a toon have 57% block without defending? If it's from enchants, it's their choice to invest in them. 1H specs seem a lot more tanky anyway. Accuracy does need changing to reflect its effect on dodge but they may not choose to do that with block. There needs to be a benefit from shields, there are too many reasons already to go 2H. As is normally fired at people in pvp, if a build type is causing someone a problem it's usually because you aren't able to counter it.


The 57% is with enchants, but with the infinite stagger and those shield bashes classes that cannot reduce Block will be chanceless. Especially because mojo prevents burn/bleed stacking. The 45% board justis can get is more than enough Let alone another 12% from a passive skill
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Illy_the_Red » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:46 am

Kenner wrote:
Illy_the_Red wrote:The first is a good suggestion. A lot of those new abilities seem to favour some classes rather than others too.

How can a toon have 57% block without defending? If it's from enchants, it's their choice to invest in them. 1H specs seem a lot more tanky anyway. Accuracy does need changing to reflect its effect on dodge but they may not choose to do that with block. There needs to be a benefit from shields, there are too many reasons already to go 2H. As is normally fired at people in pvp, if a build type is causing someone a problem it's usually because you aren't able to counter it.


The 57% is with enchants, but with the infinite stagger and those shield bashes classes that cannot reduce Block will be chanceless. Especially because mojo prevents burn/bleed stacking. The 45% board justis can get is more than enough Let alone another 12% from a passive skill


You shouldn't rebalance a skill based on a tiny minority that will have it enchanted to 9 on three pieces. As long as it is in line with bonuses from defence, status resist etc then it isn't a problem. We need more incentives to run 1H builds, not fewer. Stagger happens to be a good way of countering 2H builds, judging by the complaints. I've fought plenty that were really good tanky builds that allowed the toon good survivability...2H Justicars and mages can do so much damage it's good to hear that some builds are causing them problems.
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Illy_the_Red » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:48 am

Fara wrote:+1. Especially the third point. Stagger is virtually permanent. It should be resistible and shorter


That would have to be either resistable or shorter. Nerfing that ability when there are so many others (mostly Mage ones plus Provoke) that need attention would be over the top. Personally wouldn't reduce stagger at all, it's a 1H build ability that is actually good.
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Kenner » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:32 pm

Illy_the_Red wrote:
Fara wrote:+1. Especially the third point. Stagger is virtually permanent. It should be resistible and shorter


That would have to be either resistable or shorter. Nerfing that ability when there are so many others (mostly Mage ones plus Provoke) that need attention would be over the top. Personally wouldn't reduce stagger at all, it's a 1H build ability that is actually good.


Im pretty sure even you will get sick with perma stagger. Im just saying making it resistable or reducing time to 1.25 sec would be more even. About 1h builds being underused, how about accuracy. Even with the boost nearly no one is willing to sacrifice AP, or 1/2h damage. By adding this to accuracy it simply gives a way to counter shield users and not render them useless at all. Maybe even reduce accuracy to 2% per level when it includes Block reduction.
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Illy_the_Red » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:09 am

Kenner wrote:
Illy_the_Red wrote:
Fara wrote:+1. Especially the third point. Stagger is virtually permanent. It should be resistible and shorter


That would have to be either resistable or shorter. Nerfing that ability when there are so many others (mostly Mage ones plus Provoke) that need attention would be over the top. Personally wouldn't reduce stagger at all, it's a 1H build ability that is actually good.


Im pretty sure even you will get sick with perma stagger. Im just saying making it resistable or reducing time to 1.25 sec would be more even. About 1h builds being underused, how about accuracy. Even with the boost nearly no one is willing to sacrifice AP, or 1/2h damage. By adding this to accuracy it simply gives a way to counter shield users and not render them useless at all. Maybe even reduce accuracy to 2% per level when it includes Block reduction.


Some decent ideas there. Still not in favour. Accuracy needs to be rethought by Venan as like you say very few would use it even if it were better. I wouldn't sacrifice damage or AP just to slightly counter shield users. Generally I haven't encountered any that made me think 'yikes, OP' because of stagger. Other reasons, maybe. There are too many Mage abilities alone that need correcting. Hopefully the new classes etc give a reason to rethink pvp entirely rather than continuing with tiny tweaks to a massively flawed system.
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Kenner » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:18 pm

Okay now im curious, ive got a mage myself and fought many as a Justi/SW and im the higher tiers there aren't many mage skills that make me say it's out of balance. Yes that snap crit lance/incin hurts but it's often dodged/blocked. Also with mojo mages cannot stack status anymore so in my eyes everything that made mages so powerfull is well balanced now.
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Re: Suggestion balances in pvp.

Postby Illy_the_Red » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:00 am

Kenner wrote:Okay now im curious, ive got a mage myself and fought many as a Justi/SW and im the higher tiers there aren't many mage skills that make me say it's out of balance. Yes that snap crit lance/incin hurts but it's often dodged/blocked. Also with mojo mages cannot stack status anymore so in my eyes everything that made mages so powerfull is well balanced now.


Snap is still better than anything any other class has. Ice Spike Armour while a good idea means you take a third or more of your HP away just by hitting a Mage. 2H crits are vastly better - there is no real advantage to having a faster weapon vs a Mage as virtually all of their single-target attacks are even faster than abilities on a 1H build. So they get the benefits of very fast and very hard-hitting attacks.

Mages should be as slow as Justicars. That would go a long way to countering the issues they have. Yes I do have a Mage character (for those that always seem to mention it when balance comes up).

With the new abilities, balance is worse. Mojo is very bad for any class that works off the stacking of status effects or timed abilities. Provoke is just a way of generating backswings. Last Stand is okay but can be nixed by Mojo...as can everything. Not sure about the others as nobody seems to use them that much.
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