Hunting PvP Feats, & Rating Decay, or why Rating is good but

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Hunting PvP Feats, & Rating Decay, or why Rating is good but

Postby Bj_Knows » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:21 am

Hunting PvP Feats, & Rating Decay, or why Rating is good enough but not perfect


This post will cover

Losing in PvP
Classes in PvP Matching
Encouraging PvP
PvP Rewards
Raid Might Decay
Completing all PvP Feats
Elo Rating
PvP Matching
Venan going bankrupt

Rating: Advanced and up

What a lot of people are complaining about, is not Elo Rating, but PvP Matching. But they are also forgetting that if you cannot find an opponent to fight, you cannot get Marks.

Even if PvP Matching could predict who would win a PvP Bout 100% of the time, some one has to lose. Venan could set up PvP Matching to deliberately match all HJ members only with opponents with a 99.99% chance of losing to the HJ member. Insterestingly enough, if they did this, HJ members PvP Ratings would actually drop, since PvP Matching would be deliberately setting the characters up against underpowered character, with substantially lower PvP Ratings than the opponents HJ members *should* be fighting. A single loss versus a opponent with a 0.01% chance of winning, would destroy the HJ character's Rating. While the HJ character would be getting many wins with +0 to their PvP Rating.

Instead they set it up PvP Matching looks for two characters who can beat each other. Depending on who is in the Coliseum, it may have to settle for a long shot. Characters cannot get Marks if they cannot fight. You are going to lose to someone, PvP Matching attempts to keep your losses under 50%. It does this by lowering your Rating a large percentage of your current Rating, when it thinks you should have destroyed your opponent. A tiny bit when it knows you had no chance. Raising your Rating a lot when it things your opponent should have destroyed you. Raising your Rating a tiny percentage when it knows your opponent had no chance against you. Since PvP Matching is not perfect (see below for individual opponent PvP Ratings), and some characters are more powerful than others, some characters will have more than 50% wins, and some less.

If there are only ten people in PvP, the best general character Build (best against the other nine) will still advance to number one. The first problem is classes. In many games, like chess or go, both players have identical options, that is not true in RPG PvP, unless everyone played a clone of EricM. The second problem is BoH is world wide. EricM may only PvP while I am asleep. You see this problem with Raids vs Dungeons. I can run a Dungeon whenever I want, but if I cannot sleep, I often cannot find a Raid to kill time.

Both the Daily PvP Bonus and the Weekly Rewards are meant to encourage PvP. EricM, and I, have several critiques of the current systems, but they boil down to Venan's business model and balancing PvE and PvP. They are good enough, and making them perfect is impractical (see below for "The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good").

Venan uses a historical Elo Formula, so your Rating will naturally decay when Venan introduces new Gear, Enchants, Gems, Tomes, Level Cap, Class Abilities until you catch up with the players who got the new stuff first. Currently, getting into Masters is a race to see who can get the new stuff fastest and use it the best. Interestingly, your Rating may jump up, and then fall down, when Venan adds a new language, depending on the time zone of the new players.

It is a poor analogy, but think of weekly Rating Decay as weekly Raid Might Decay. You need 19400 Raid Might to get into PM Raid. If you go on vacation for one month, and come back, you can still get into PM Raid. Unless Venan adds new stuff (see above), if you take a vacation for a month and come back, your character is still as deadly in PvP as it was before you left for Vacation (though you may be out of practice using your character in PvP).

One of the main reasons CJ has moved on to other games, is PvP Feats. She used to collect all the BoH Feats. With the introduction of a historical Elo System, and PvP Feats based on Leagues, it is now impossible for all players to get all Feats.

Fromt the rumors I have heard, Masters League has its own problems in addition to first getting into Platinum. While Masters League is a good concept, in my personal opinion, either a Leaderboard of Weekly Marks Earned or a monthly Tournament for each League like March Madness in Basketball, would be better.

Rating: Expert and up

Elo Rating has a large known weakness, it cannot predict the winner between two mavericks. There is an old saying "The best swordsman in the kingdom does not fear the second best swordsman, but the worst". It is dealing with the idea of standard attacks and counters. If the best swordsman knows all the best counters to all the standard attacks, an untrained swordsman will not be using the standard attacks. If you have two chess players who are trained by the same mentor, Elo Rating works pretty good. But if you have to grand masters trained by notoriously unconventional mentors, than neither knows counters to the others strategies since they have never seen them before.

You can see this in Sports Betting when they compare two teams (ex: Broncos vs Patriots) by how they are doing this season versus *all* teams, and how they have done in the past versus each other. Statistics still has a hard time. Just like BoH, teams have different Levels (Pro, Farm, School, Playground), Gear (Tom Brady, Payton Manning, Pelee, Michael Jordon), Enchants (Mile High Stadium, Fenway Park, St. Andrews), etc. And just like BoH these things change between match ups.

Ideally, the Server would create an *individual* PvP Rating for every opponent you fight, then average them for your public PvP Rating. When checking for matches, the Server would check your PvP Rating versus each person in the Coliseum. With 1.4 million characters on the Server, this is not going to happen. The costs would be prohibitive. So your current PvP Rating is your average PvP Rating versus every opponent you have fought so far, and their then current Builds. The military has a saying "The Perfect is the Enemy of the Good". It is dealing with the idea of trade offs. The Perfect Fort, Position, Weapon, etc. does you zero good if your opponent shows up before you are finished building the Fort, moving to the Position, received a shipment of the Weapon. Instead finishing a Good Enough Fort, moving to a Good Enough Position, aquiring a Good Enough Weapon that you have ready when your opponent arrives will let you win. A single PvP Rating in BoH is good enough, since a PvP Rating versus every opponent would bankrupt Venan and still not create a huge improvement in PvP Matching.

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