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Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:46 pm
by ELORatingBasedonRNG
Question about these so called OP - Justi's

Getting caught with a Seismic Slash - What is it 1.25 Knock Back? Which equals 2 hits of no attack from the defender? Let alone with a Brutal strike applied - a possible 3 strikes followed with a stun to enable a 4th attack with no eligibility of a strike from a defender.

Lets remember the infinite Juggernaut that is implemented to prevent any of this from occurring. It is all dependent upon a well played defend versus bad timing but any which way you look at it - there needs to be some sort of Balancing applied here.

Shed some light on this for understanding - if you can. Much appreciated.

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:23 pm
by Sugenew
Please don't nerf justi based off stupid pvp. It's bad enough justi doesn't compare to other classes in onslaught raids it cost justi essentially double the e for same rpp. Also explain how justi is OP again considering even in pvp their are only 2 justi in top 10.

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:33 am
by Wyrmblight
Sugeny wrote:Please don't nerf justi based off stupid pvp. It's bad enough justi doesn't compare to other classes in onslaught raids it cost justi essentially double the e for same rpp. Also explain how justi is OP again considering even in pvp their are only 2 justi in top 10.


WM's have been complaining since the start of PVP. Unless they can kill people by the hundreds and consume them with fireballs from their eye s and bolts of lightning from their rear then everyone else is OP. Almost as if WM's are the biggest complainers in the game. They don't win in PVP 99% of the time, they complain. No onslaught they complain, a raid that is has a non-onslaught part they complain. Kinda funny when you sit back and look at it.

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:49 pm
by ELORatingBasedonRNG
Not by any means.

The fact that during a PvP match and 1 character, in this case a "mage," is unable to strike for 8 straight attacks. Is quite crazy.

It would be equivalent to a Mage having 4 stuns all quicker than any spell you can land. Imagine facing that type of situation.

So I'm clear - I'm not calling of a "nerf." But balancing across the characters.

My Suggestions for it would be the knock back in PvP to not exceed 1 second. That should still keep the knock backs available for the Justi but require a more involved PvP match from the person playing the character. Seismic knock back would be to 1 sec. You're still Capable of a brutal strike with a knock back to .50 which you can stun directly after. 3 attacks with a still available heroic will but sincerely Heroic will should not "Clear" all cool downs to allow 2 additional knock backs with an additional stun.

That is technically 6 stuns from the Justi's that you hope to get around.

As you've already voiced your complaint regarding the Mage - I can state that being a Mage. We don't hit that hard to peeps - our crit chances are limited and with all the damage mitigation other characters have - we are a minority on the spectrum.

I don't play a shadow walker but I'm sure there can be discussion on it.

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:11 pm
by EricM
I'm opposed to any major nerf. Pvp is balanced finally (somewhat) in the higher leagues. Any significant justi nerf would shift that balance towards the other classes.

Like suge said, the one thing that's a gaping hole right now in the justi class is onslaught. Outside that, pvp isn't too terrible once players start enchanting. If there's any problems with pvp, it's that the threshold to enchant is a bit high (it's not til reasonably high might that enchants tend to help significantly).

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:34 pm
by Zombie_Princess_Kenny
iOptioniousPrime wrote:Not by any means.

The fact that during a PvP match and 1 character, in this case a "mage," is unable to strike for 8 straight attacks. Is quite crazy.

It would be equivalent to a Mage having 4 stuns all quicker than any spell you can land. Imagine facing that type of situation.
Uh...that was before 2.0 i believe. Mages had a chance to stun after every ice move. Meaning 2-8 stuns A MATCH.
So I'm clear - I'm not calling of a "nerf." But balancing across the characters.

My Suggestions for it would be the knock back in PvP to not exceed 1 second. That should still keep the knock backs available for the Justi but require a more involved PvP match from the person playing the character. Seismic knock back would be to 1 sec. You're still Capable of a brutal strike with a knock back to .50 which you can stun directly after. 3 attacks with a still available heroic will but sincerely Heroic will should not "Clear" all cool downs to allow 2 additional knock backs with an additional stun.

That is technically 6 stuns from the Justi's that you hope to get around.

As you've already voiced your complaint regarding the Mage - I can state that being a Mage. We don't hit that hard to peeps - our crit chances are limited and with all the damage mitigation other characters have - we are a minority on the spectrum.

I don't play a shadow walker but I'm sure there can be discussion on it.

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:56 pm
by Illy_the_Red
EricM wrote:I'm opposed to any major nerf. Pvp is balanced finally (somewhat) in the higher leagues. Any significant justi nerf would shift that balance towards the other classes.

Like suge said, the one thing that's a gaping hole right now in the justi class is onslaught. Outside that, pvp isn't too terrible once players start enchanting. If there's any problems with pvp, it's that the threshold to enchant is a bit high (it's not til reasonably high might that enchants tend to help significantly).


Agree Eric. I'm not sure balance is really right yet, but at least one class doesn't feel ahead (as had been the case since pvp's inception). It is a shame that Justicars are at a disadvantage in OS.

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:00 pm
by Illy_the_Red
iOptioniousPrime wrote:Not by any means.

The fact that during a PvP match and 1 character, in this case a "mage," is unable to strike for 8 straight attacks. Is quite crazy.

It would be equivalent to a Mage having 4 stuns all quicker than any spell you can land. Imagine facing that type of situation.

So I'm clear - I'm not calling of a "nerf." But balancing across the characters.

My Suggestions for it would be the knock back in PvP to not exceed 1 second. That should still keep the knock backs available for the Justi but require a more involved PvP match from the person playing the character. Seismic knock back would be to 1 sec. You're still Capable of a brutal strike with a knock back to .50 which you can stun directly after. 3 attacks with a still available heroic will but sincerely Heroic will should not "Clear" all cool downs to allow 2 additional knock backs with an additional stun.

That is technically 6 stuns from the Justi's that you hope to get around.

As you've already voiced your complaint regarding the Mage - I can state that being a Mage. We don't hit that hard to peeps - our crit chances are limited and with all the damage mitigation other characters have - we are a minority on the spectrum.

I don't play a shadow walker but I'm sure there can be discussion on it.


Mages can hit very hard. If you aren't, adjust your toon's build because WM is just as capable of doing very high damage crits. I see it all the time at different levels of PvP (gold I/II and plat I/II). I'd suggest higher crit, crit power and damage enchants.

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:34 pm
by ELORatingBasedonRNG
Yes, Mages hit like a truck. I understand that. I'll take a reduction in damage in PvP to balance out the classes.

I've described how easily a Justi can drop a sequence for a Mage to be unable to strike for 8 direct hits. Justi's have nearly 6 stuns that a Mage needs to channel through during a fight, with a Mage trying to wait for a stun due to CD from the get go. Otherwise we have a 6 second interrupt that doesn't do much with seismic at the helm of the next strike. If the interrupt would establish a Cool Down for the blocked cast then maybe we'd be getting somewhere. Mages are sitting ducks vs Justi's. That's not a PvP match, in my opinion, but a hope for a resist or spell dodge.

Justi's might need a buff to better their onslaught phase. That only speaks that BoH needs to implement talent trees to benefit Justi's PvE. Which then again redirects to a balancing across the board.

However, on a positive side - can you guys in-game me your fights so I can get the enjoyment of watching. Please feel free to spam me with them. I get a kick out of watching them anyways.

I'd like to see what you guys are witnessing versus what I am experiencing. Thanks a bunch!

Re: jusies op?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:14 pm
by _Raiden
Actually all this talks points to only 1 thing Knockback.
Of which the work around is to level up all your Knockback resist problem slove :)

As for jugg if u time your attacks correctly jugg is not so much of an issue here.
1s jugg but a justi needs 0.7s to excute a Brut on the opponent.

So an option to counter jugg is to defend 0.5s and launch the next attack that's more than 0.5s that more or less render the jugg useless.

There are many ways around it. This is just one of te option.

Less complaining more thinking will get u more solution. :)