What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Discuss about all things related to PvP. What do you like? What do you hate? Let us know!

What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Tom_ » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:47 pm

First new topic in a year! I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum in prior threads, but a refresher certainly couldn't hurt. It's no secret that many formerly prolific PvPers either barely pvp now or have stopped altogether. So I ask all of you now, what can Venan do to make PvP fresh and enjoyable again? How can we make PvP great again? :D
Tom_
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:05 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Bbbb » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:43 pm

I opposed PVP from the beginning. I objected back when it was originally proposed. I tried it and even though I was in masters back then, I constantly wanted to throw my phone against the wall.

I think a large part of the problem is that it is real time. Every other game I've played (e.g Empires and Puzzles and *ugh* Dungeon Boss) uses a system where you set a defender and when someone attacks you, the AI defends. This would resolve all the matching problems (both speed and might issues).
Bbbb
 
Posts: 2115
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 11:53 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Illy_the_Red » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:37 am

Nothing less than a complete overhaul, not that it is likely given the overall state of the game at the moment. We’re still waiting for those new raids, Venan...you know, that update you said was coming after Tragick?

Agree with B4, PvP is real time, the matching system both sucks and takes way too long, the gain/loss system is based on Elo which is inherently flawed (many chess players hate it but people seem to think it’s a great system for online games) and there is zero incentive to play more than one match a week.

An offline method would probably save PvP, but honestly this game has bigger problems right now. The constant haemorrhage of players, no new content for 3+ years, and the broken events make this a game nobody has any real incentive to play anymore. Long term, another company could take the property and turn it into something better and just as unique, which is the only future I see for the game if it wants to stay relevant into the 2020s.

Given the announcement, does this mean a Venan dev (or the Venan dev, there seems to be no evidence there is more than one these days) is actually reading the forums again?
Illy_the_Red
 
Posts: 1620
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Tom_ » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:22 am

Welp, I wrote a long and thought out response to your posts, but the forums logged me out and it was lost in its entirety. Classic venan. Basically I wrote that I think it's interesting that you both cited real-time matchmaking as a primary issue with pvp. I see where you're both coming from and I think there are some very real problems with the current system, but I feel that the live aspect of pvp is what makes it so fun and unique compared to other app games, and it would lose its soul if we were to fight AI instead of actual people. Not to mention how difficult this would be to implement for the dev(s), it would be much easier to gain rating, as it is virtually impossible to create an AI as sophisticated or as unpredictable as real players. With that being said, I think it's clear that something needs to be done about matchmaking if devs want to prevent pvp from deteriorating even more than it already has.

Regarding the bigger picture, I don't think any company-big or small-would be interested in acquiring BoH from Venan at this point. Monthly revenue is approximately 6000 dollars per month according to Sensortower, which is absolutely abysmal relative to even modestly successful games. I could only really see acquisition of Venan as a whole, but even that seems unlikely since Venan no longer actively creates games and profit from all of its current offerings is extremely subpar (again according to Sensortower).

Moving back towards pvp, I notice you mentioned incentive Illy. What about incentivization? A new tier of pvp gear would certainly entice more players to play/return to pvp IMO. New formats like 2v2 and 3v3 have been proposed, but that is very ambitious. What else might encourage more people to pvp?
Tom_
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:05 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby SaraaGoBragh_less » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:33 am

Monthly PvP resets with rewards in a similar fashion to how the HS leaderboards would be a good start. Altering rating points earned/lost in matches would be great as well. Separate ability trees, ffs like literally everyone has been asking for since beta came out. New gear/gems is not enticing enough to get people back or new people interested. All you'd get is a large group of PvP farmers that would further skew the PvP results and lopsided RNG matches. It's a losing battle becauee, much like Ily said, nothing short of a an almost full overhaul would fix what's wrong with PvP.
SaraaGoBragh_less
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:29 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Gary_ » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:32 pm

I attempted coming pack to PvP. It ended with a “last stand”...I guess it was my last stand. Too many issues with PvP. With so few participating, why not kill it and start over...that may be too much. Saraa has good points. Monthly/Quarterly resets with rewards. Elimating some really bad skills. Point system changed. Sorry, I really don’t have much to stand on as I’ve been Inactive a year or so, but now you know why.
Gary_
 
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:35 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Tom_ » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:44 pm

Hi Gary, monthly resets is an idea I've heard before and one that sounds very feasible to me. How would y'all change the point system exactly? And Sara, what exactly do you mean by separate ability trees? Separate as in trees for magic, physical, and dots?
Tom_
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:05 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby SaraaGoBragh_less » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:17 pm

The point loss from losing to an obviously inferior toon(24-32) simply because RNGesus deems it so is ridiculous. Sure, reward the inferior toon with a +30 but don't penalize the higher toon so harshly. I'm not sure how the rating points could be adjusted but it has been a source of frustration for a very long time.

In terms of separate ability trees it's as straight forward as it sounds. One of the very first turnoffs for people when PvP came out was how Venan messed with the abilities just to balance PvP with no initial regard to how it affected pve. This led to abilities becoming essentially useless (Ice Lance comes to mind) or classes being complete rubbish in pve. If there were separate trees for pve and PvP they could tweak the PvP abilites to better balance classes without affecting those who don't want to PvP or perhaps get them to PvP more as they have a different "branch" to experiment with.
SaraaGoBragh_less
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:29 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Tom_ » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:12 am

Saraa: I can see how that would be frustrating. With that being said, I think the whole point loss issue is a symptom of a larger problem, and that is the relative scarcity of players participating in pvp. Needless to say, this is a circular problem: we're discussing ways to bring people back to pvp, and part of the reason they may have left pvp in the first place (at least more recently) is because they were frustrated by how difficult it is to rank up now and how easy it is to lose a disproportionate number of points to people in lower leagues. I think lessening the number of points the higher rated account would lose while retaining rating gain for the lower rated one is a good quick fix that could bring some disenfranchised former pvpers back, but one that ultimately conflicts with the ethos of pvp to begin with; that is, players "should" be punished for losing to ostensibly inferior accounts.

This is a very difficult question to resolve without compromising the spirit of pvp or continuing to lose players, unless there are far more players actively participating in pvp, in which case it virtually disappears entirely. One potential solution could be changing the way the system calculates rating change in such a way that, if a high rated account loses to a low rated account that has achieved similarly high rating within a recent time frame (say 1 year) but has decayed due to inactivity, points loss would be mitigated. In doing so, Venan could contextualize matchmaking's assessment of what defines inferiority and prompt it to act accordingly. Unfortunately, this is a far more complicated and difficult to execute fix than the one you suggested, and it could be argued that-with pvp as heavily influenced by RNG as BOH's-losses to people with lower rating shouldn't be punished to the extent they are anyway. So having said all of that, unless someone else can up with a cleaner, simpler answer to this issue than what you suggested, I think your way is the way to go.

As for separate ability trees, I think this is a good idea that would require some work on the devs' part. Do you think there is an easier way they could achieve the same effect?
Tom_
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:05 pm

Re: What would make you want to come back to PvP?

Postby Derp_looks_like_a_Lady » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:26 am

Question: how would the idea of different ability trees differ from the separate builds that already exist, i.e. Coliseum vs. Build 1, etc.?
Derp_looks_like_a_Lady
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:02 pm

Next

Return to PvP Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron