Luck for Essence Farming, Updated (R=Adv+)

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Luck for Essence Farming, Updated (R=Adv+)

Postby Bj_Knows » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:03 am

Subject
Luck for Essence Farming, Updated (R=Adv+)

Rating: Advanced and up.

Luck Enchant Rank 6- 9 is useful for many reasons. However one reason it is *not* useful is Essence Farming. This Topic will explore the math.

When your character Farms enough Essence for the Return On Investment to equal 0.0 (ROI, Note 1) of 3 items with Luck rank 9 (ignoring other benefits of Luck),

you will have Farmed enough Essence to Enchant 10 Slots all the way to Rank 9, and 26 Slots to Rank 8, for a total of 36 Enchants on your Player VS Anything Gear and Player VS Player Gear,
or
you will have Farmed enough Essence to Enchant 18 Slots all the way to Rank 9 on your Player VS Anything Gear, none on your Player VS Player Gear, and 398,366 left over Essence.



Rank 1 & Rank 5 Luck
If you are positive you are going to Enchant 18+ Slots to Rank 6, three items with Rank 1 Luck (total 1.5%), has a very positive ROI. If you are going to Enchant 18+ Slots to Rank 9, three items with Rank 5 Luck (total 7.5%), has a very positive ROI. Two good places to stop are Luck Rank 2 & Rank 4. Three items with Luck Rank 2 cost 15 Gold Shields to move using Arcane Transfer or 30 Gold Shields for Luck Rank 4.



Math
There are two ROIs in an analysis, the amount, and the time, of the ROI. If you loan someone $100, and they pay it back in $10 increments, it takes 10 payments. But if they pay $10 per year it will take longer to repay then $10 per hour. For this analysis we do not care how fast you get your Essence (ex: 1000 per day or 10 per week), or in which increments (ex: 3 Essence or 11 Essence), only the total number of Essence you get (ex: 700 Essence is enough to Enchant 2 Slots to Rank 3).

The *type* of Essence that drops does not make a difference. In a similar example, if you need $2.00 USD to buy a soft drink, you can use nickels ($0.05), quarters ($0.25) or dollar bills ($1.00), as long as the total comes to $2.00. If you need 100 Pure Essence to Empower Luck from Rank 6 to Rank 7, It does not matter if you get 100 Pure, 1000 Refined, 10000 Essence or any combination of the two. If your luck gives you +10% to Essence Loot Drops, then it will give you +10% to Refined Essence Loot Drops and +10% to Pure Essence Loot Drops.

For purposes of this analysis,
1 Refined Essence= 10 Essence
1 Pure Essence= 100 Essence
18 Enchants= Full Enchants for Player VS Anything Gear (PvA) and no Enchants for Player VS Player Gear (PvP).
36 Enchants= Full Enchants for Player VS Anything Gear (PvA) and Full Enchants for Player VS Player Gear (PvP)


3 Items with Luck rank 1
Enchanting Cost is 300 Essence
Luck is 0.015
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 20,000 Essence or 2,000 Refined or 200 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 14.8 Enchants to rank 3 + 21.1 Enchants to rank 2 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 4.7 Enchants to Rank 4 + 13.3 Enchants to Rank 3 ].

3 Items with Luck rank 2
Enchanting Cost is 1,050 Essence
Luck is 0.03
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 35,000 Essence or 3,500 Refined or 350 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 4.4 Enchants to rank 4 + 31.6 Enchants to rank 3 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 0.68 Enchants to Rank 5 + 17.32 Enchants to Rank 4 ].

3 Items with Luck rank 3
Enchanting Cost is 2,550 Essence
Luck is 0.045
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 56,666 Essence or 5,666 Refined or 566 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 26 Enchants to rank 4 + 10 Enchants to rank 3 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 9.34 Enchants to Rank 5 + 8.65 Enchants to Rank 4 ].



3 Items with Luck rank 4
Enchanting Cost is 5,550 Essence
Luck is 0.06
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 92,500 Essence or 9,250 Refined or 925 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 10.36 Enchants to Rank 5 + 25.64 Enchants to Rank 4 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 2,84 Enchants to Rank 6 + 15.16 Enchants to Rank 5 ]

3 Items with Luck rank 5
Enchanting Cost is 13,050 Essence
Luck is 0.075
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 174,000 Essence or 17,400 Refined or 1,740 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 3.4 Enchants to Rank 6 + 32.52 Enchants to Rank 5 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 0.57 Enchants to Rank 7 + 17.43 Enchants to rank 6 ]

3 Items with Luck rank 6
Enchanting Cost is 28,050
Luck is 0.09
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 311,666 Essence or 31,000 Refined or 3,100 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 31 Enchants to Rank 6 + 5 Enchants to Rank 5 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 14.33 Enchants to Rank 7 + 3.66 Enchants to Rank 6 ]



3 Items with Luck rank 7
Enchanting Cost is 58,050
Luck is 0.105
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 552,857 Essence or 55,285 Refined or 5,528 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 21.6 Enchants to Rank 7 + 14.37 Enchants to Rank 6 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 8.18 Enchants to Rank 8 + 9.82 Enchants to Rank 7 ]

3 Items with Luck rank 8
Enchanting Cost is 133,050
Luck is 0.12
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 1,108,750 Essence or 110,875 Refined or 11,087 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 16.48 Enchants to Rank 8 + 19.51 Enchants to Rank 7 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 6.2 Enchants to Rank 9 + 11.8 Enchants to Rank 8 ]

3 Items with Luck rank 9
Enchanting Cost is 283,050
Luck is 0.135
ROI= 0.0 from Essence Farming (ignoring other benefits) is 2,096,666 Essence or 209,666 Refined or 20,966 Pure or [ 36 Enchants= 10 Enchants to Rank 9 + 26 Enchants Enchants to Rank 8 ]
or [ 18 Enchants= 18 Enchants to Rank 9 + 398,366 left over Essence ]



Empower, Total Essence per Item, Total Essence for 36 Enchants
100; 100; 3,600
250; 350; 12,600
500; 850; 30,600

1,000; 1,850; 66,600
2,500; 4,350; 156,600
5,000; 9,350; 336,600

10,000; 19,350; 696,600
25,000; 44,350; 1,596,600
50,000; 94,350; 3,396,600



Empower, Total Essence per Item, Total Essence for 18 Enchants
100; 100; 1,800
250; 350; 6,300
500; 850; 15,300

1,000; 1,850; 33,300
2,500; 4,350; 78,300
5,000; 9,350; 168,300

10,000; 19,350; 348,300
25,000; 44,350; 798,300
50,000; 94,350; 1,698,300

Note: These are approximations for visualization purposes only, not the exact Math required. There are an infinite number of ways you can Enchant 3 Items with Luck and 18 Items with 36 different Enchants. The simplified case for 3 Items with Rank 9 Enchants assumed they went from Luck 0.000 to Luck 0.135 without stopping at any Ranks, or other Enchants, between. If you Enchant anything except Luck, your numbers will be worse, but not by much.

Note 1)
Return On Investment = 0.0 is often called the Break Even Point for the Investment.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/returnoninvestment.asp
Last edited by Bj_Knows on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:47 pm, edited 13 times in total.
Reason: Rank 1 & 5, ROI=0.0, Updated for 18 Enchants
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming (R=Med+)

Postby Illy_the_Red » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:52 am

Three things:

You're assuming anyone would want to take Luck to 9. It's more advisable to get luck to at least III and preferably VI. There are more important enchants to take past VI.

The Luck enchant states that it increases Luck by 0.5% per level, giving 9% for 3 x Level VI enchants.

You're also assuming that people enchant Luck and are purely looking to 'break even' from it in a similar way to Energy Regeneration. In reality it is worth enchanting Luck to give those bonus Pure Essence and Refined Essence drops to occur. 1 Refined is worth 100 essence with 1 Pure worth 1000! That's before you take crafting time saved into account.

Players new to enchanting take note, there's a reason a lot of high might players take Luck.
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming (R=Med+)

Postby john12345 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:28 am

The interesting point is that luck drop kind is not necessarily same to base loot. E. G. Pure essence base loot doesn't mean that if luck triggers you get pure drop. And vice versa.
So for correct analysis you need to know ratio of pure to refined to normal essence. Or put simple how much of each one of them you get per 2 e in average (mean value like 0.1 pure + 2 refined + 10 normal) without luck enchant. This number is the base and to this number 13.5% luck from 3*lvl 9 should be applied.
This is even more not easy task assuming that ratios vary between different raid phases. E. G. While p2 p3 in pm have same drop rate ratio, the cv p3 seems to have half amounts of pm. Other phases no pure at all.
Another point is that with the time venan is going to raise amounts of essence drops like it happened till now. So luck enchant will bring even better drops with time passing.

The question is which alternatives do you have assuming you want to max toon? Dmg enchants could at most raise you one league in pvp giving 5 marks more per fight . it's nice but marks won't max your toon while essence will do. If highest tier onslaught return these dmg enchants may return be useful for toon development but having dual enchants slot you can combine dmg with luck. For me Wm is the only class with non trivial decision for onslaught : fire + ice dmg vs fire + luck. Personally I went for fire +luck
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming (R=Med+)

Postby Bj_Knows » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:51 am

john12345 wrote:The interesting point is that luck drop kind is not necessarily same to base loot. E. G. Pure essence base loot doesn't mean that if luck triggers you get pure drop. And vice versa.
So for correct analysis you need to know ratio of pure to refined to normal essence. Or put simple how much of each one of them you get per 2 e in average (mean value like 0.1 pure + 2 refined + 10 normal) without luck enchant.


Actually, No.

The only number that matters is how much Essence is required for the Luck Enchant, and how much Bonus Essence do you get from Luck.

Ex: I get a 2 Pure Essence, equal to 200 Essence. I can use this towards increasing my Luck Enchant from Rank 6 to 7, or I can apply it directly toward increasing my Fire Enchant Rank 6. If I get 200 Essence from a Portal, and convert it to 2 Pure Essence in the Workshop, I can use it towards increasing my Luck Enchant from Rank 6 to 7 or I can apply it directly towards increasing my Fire Enchant Rank 6.

The *type* of Essence is unnecessary for this analysis.

If Venan doubles, or triples, Essence drops, the ratios still hold.

john12345 wrote:If highest tier onslaught return these dmg enchants may return be useful for toon development but having dual enchants slot you can combine dmg with luck. For me Wm is the only class with non trivial decision for onslaught : fire + ice dmg vs fire + luck. Personally I went for fire +luck


If you can get 1950 RPP per 10 Energy, without Crafted Potions/ Food, in Phase 2 and Phase 3 of LEGS Raid, Fire+ Luck is an aweSPOON combination.

However, if you *only* care about Luck and Essence, the number are even worse if you are just Enchanting a PvA Set (18 Enchants) vs both a PvA Set and a PvP Set (36 Enchants). I have updated the first Post to reflect only 18 Enchants & the full 36 Enchants.
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming *UPDATED* (R=Med+)

Postby john12345 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:41 pm

Type of essence and ratio between pure refined and normal does matter. Because it sets your base essence drop mean value.
Lets talk about 2 extreme cases.
1. base drop(without luck enchanted items equipped ) is 10 Normal + 10 refined + 3 pure=410 normal equivalent

2. Base is 10 normal + 2 refined + 0.1 pure =40 normal essence equivalent.

Assuming luck is 10% for simplicity, in first case every 2e will bring 40 essence equivalent more in average with luck gear equipped while in second case only 4 essence more.

It's clear that in case 1 the luck brings near 10 times more essence per encounter than in case 2.

In both cases enchanting luck to lvl 9 costs same resources of course.

So it's necessary to know ratios to compute break even points
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming *UPDATED* (R=Med+)

Postby Bj_Knows » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:20 pm

john12345 wrote:It's clear that in case 1 the luck brings near 10 times more essence per encounter than in case 2.

In both cases enchanting luck to lvl 9 costs same resources of course.

So it's necessary to know ratios to compute break even points


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Re: Luck for Essence Farming *UPDATED* (R=Med+)

Postby Bbbb » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:38 pm

Just from eyeballing BJ's numbers. Level 6 Luck is worthwhile. Level 7 is borderline.

Level 8 and 9 are only advisable if you are trying to max as quick as possible.

However, as I stated in another thread, level 8 and 9 enchants in general have little return except for PvE or maybe onslaught. I was finding that the .5% luck was getting me more on OS than 1% extra damage.

John, I don't get the point you are trying to make (and I completely understand BJ - this is like the bizarro thread :-). For analysis purposes, you will have enough drops to expect that in the long haul, your bonus essence of each type will be almost exactly your luck percentage. Sure, there are wild swings on a single drop, but they will average out when you have thousands of drops.

If you can get 1950 RPP per 10 Energy, without Crafted Potions/ Food, in Phase 2 and Phase 3 of LEGS Raid, Fire+ Luck is an aweSPOON combination.


Try more like 7500 RPP.
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming *UPDATED* (R=Med+)

Postby Jumper » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:05 pm

Bbbb wrote:
If you can get 1950 RPP per 10 Energy, without Crafted Potions/ Food, in Phase 2 and Phase 3 of LEGS Raid, Fire+ Luck is an aweSPOON combination.


Try more like 7500 RPP.



lol b. my thoughts exactly
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming *UPDATED* (R=Med+)

Postby EricM » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:29 pm

Jumper wrote:
Bbbb wrote:
If you can get 1950 RPP per 10 Energy, without Crafted Potions/ Food, in Phase 2 and Phase 3 of LEGS Raid, Fire+ Luck is an aweSPOON combination.


Try more like 7500 RPP.



lol b. my thoughts exactly


Or 15k if you're honaj :p
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Re: Luck for Essence Farming, Updated (R=Adv+)

Postby _ACID_ » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:23 pm

Thanks for finding this BJ, greatly appreciated :)
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