Min Gems or Geometric Diminishing Returns (R=Exp+)

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Re: Min Gems or Geometric Diminishing Returns (R=Exp+)

Postby Bj_Knows » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:38 am

Experiment seems to be complete, but not a full success.

For suggestion to fix player experience, and Venan's cash flow, see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7926
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Currency Adjustment

Postby Bj_Knows » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:44 am

Subject
Currency Adjustment

In addition to multiplying PvP Marks by a factor of Might, multiply Seasonal Currency. Ex: character with 50,000 Might gets more silverware per WereChef loot drop than characters with 500 Might.

Having Galadriel receive 1 Silverware when defeating a level 35 WereChef with tier 19 Gear, having Cassidy receive 1 Silverware when defeating a level 33 WereChef with T14 Gear & one of CJ's level 16 alt's also receive 1 Silverware for defeating a WereChef with T8 Gear is very frustrating to me.

This also becomes problematic with Seasonal Raids.

Once the Dungeon Loot Drop is adjusted, also adjust the amount of Silverware per 5 GS per character by a similar amount.
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Re: Currency Adjustment

Postby Illy_the_Red » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:35 am

Bj_DWR wrote:Subject
Currency Adjustment

In addition to multiplying PvP Marks by a factor of Might, multiply Seasonal Currency. Ex: character with 50,000 Might gets more silverware per WereChef loot drop than characters with 500 Might.

Having Galadriel receive 1 Silverware when defeating a level 35 WereChef with tier 19 Gear, having Cassidy receive 1 Silverware when defeating a level 33 WereChef with T14 Gear & one of CJ's level 16 alt's also receive 1 Silverware for defeating a WereChef with T8 Gear is very frustrating to me.

This also becomes problematic with Seasonal Raids.

Once the Dungeon Loot Drop is adjusted, also adjust the amount of Silverware per 5 GS per character by a similar amount.


If anything it should be the opposite. More silverware for lower might toons - they're the ones who benefit most from events and are more likely to have less energy if they're saving for sigils, as opposed to long-running toons who are more likely to have a full 50e. I really don't think my 62k SW who breezes through that dungeon deserves more silverware than my 13k baby one that find it a slog.
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Cassidy's Enchants Order

Postby Bj_Knows » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:21 am

Subject
Cassidy's Enchants Order

I figured out Cassidy's Enchant Limits (Note 1), now I need to figure out which order to Empower them to Rank 4.

Format= Enchant (max rank) current rank for all three slots. Ex: Fire (max 4) raise from 333 means currently Fire Damage rank 3 on slot A, slot B, Slot C, raise to rank 4.

Fire (max 4) raise from 333 (Fire Mastery rank 3 in Coliseum Build),

Ice (max 4) raise from 333 (Ice Storm rank 3 & Shatter Force rank 3 use VS Monsters),

Knockback Resist (max 4) raise from 333 (opponents with Smoke Bomb & Seismic in PvP, if I start playing again, might swap this for Defense max rank 4 on PvP Armor because of Juggernaut),

Armor Piercing (max 4) raise from 333 (PvP opponents all have armor, VS Monsters can have zero armor),

Status Resist (max 6- 8) raise from 444 (every time Venan raises Level Cap, more ability points to spend on Coliseum Build, more opponent attacks were Status Resist a good thing. VS Monster can never have too much Status Resist, well, maybe a Speed Run Build),

Luck (max 4) raise from 333 (raising Luck last due to math, see Note 2),

2h (max 4) currently at 444 so stop (Works with Fire, Ice, or Staff Attack, VS Player or VS Monster, Staff Attack uses Magic Gems for Damage unlike 1h Weapon Basic Attack so WM Cassidy can go full out on Magic Gems).

Note 1)
Bj_Knows wrote:After running the numbers (see below), I plan to stop Lean WM Cassidy’s Luck at Rank 4.

. . .

Total cost of Arcane Transfer= 240 GS or 330 GS when Venan raise Max Tier Gear.

. . .

3,000 Essence = 6600 Essence (plus Flux & Gravers) lost forever, to Transfer if Status Resist Rank 6
Or
15,000 Essence = 18,600 (plus Flux & Gravers) lost forever, to Transfer if Status Resist Rank 8 when Venan raise Max Tier Gear.



Farming Essence and Luck ROI numbers
18 Rank 4 Enchants (1,850 Essence)= 33,300 Essence
3 Rank 6 Enchants (9,350 Essence)= 28,050 Essence
Or
3 Rank 8 Enchants (44,350 Essence)= 133,050 Essence

Total
61,350 Essence (good ROI on Luck Rank 2)
or
166,350 Essence (good ROI on Luck Rank 4)
https://www.venan.com/boh_forum/viewtopic.php?p=38192#p38192


Note 2)
Thanks for everyone who pointed out Luck rank 9 is not the most profitable, but lower ranks of Luck are profitable. Below link to excerpt of a math heavy Post.

Bj_Knows wrote:Subject
Luck for Essence Farming, Updated (R=Adv+)

Rating: Advanced and up.

Luck Enchant Rank 6- 9 is useful for many reasons. However one reason it is *not* useful is Essence Farming. This Topic will explore the math.

. . .

Rank 1 & Rank 5 Luck
If you are positive you are going to Enchant 18+ Slots to Rank 6, three items with Rank 1 Luck (total 1.5%), has a very positive ROI. If you are going to Enchant 18+ Slots to Rank 9, three items with Rank 5 Luck (total 7.5%), has a very positive ROI. Two good places to stop are Luck Rank 2 & Rank 4. Three items with Luck Rank 2 cost 15 Gold Shields to move using Arcane Transfer or 30 Gold Shields for Luck Rank 4.
https://www.venan.com/boh_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7429
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Historic Elo Rating Range

Postby Bj_Knows » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:54 pm

Subject
Historic Elo Rating Range

CJ asked if I could fix War Mage Bunni. Limited success in PvE because she is only 9k to 10k Might, with Tier 10 Gear but is already Level 31.

In PvP she is 1 Win vs Justicar, 4 Wins vs Shadow Walkers, 0 Wins vs War Mages for a total of 5 Wins out of 24 PvP Bouts for a Rating of 164.

Compared to Lean War Mage Cassidy. Cassidy is 22k Might in PvE with T18 Coliseum Pants, T17 Sweater, T14 Hood and T19 Staff at Level 35 (only because Pirate Raids gave her so much XP).

In PvP Cassidy is 182 Wins vs Justicar, 172 Wins vs Shadow Walkers, 195 Wins vs War Mages for a total of 549 Wins out of 885 PvP Bouts for a Rating of 1,296.

The difference is not much and Bunni is very close to zero for a normal distribution curve.

Even if Venan can get players into PvP in large numbers (I am betting on Bribery) every time the new Max Might goes up, the Tier 6 and Tier 11 Bundles get closer and closer together for PvP Rating. This no only confuses the historical records, but confuses the Elo based Matching Algorithm. A Tier 6 character has little chance versus a Tier 11 character all things being equal. While high Might does not guarantee high PvP Rating, high PvP Rating does indicate high Might.

If Venan does not want to go with an expanding Elo Rating Method (ex: Target Elo Rating Range for start of Season is zero to Maximum Might), using the historic Elo Rating Method with the current Range is very restrictive (target Elo Rating Range for start of each Season appears to be 0 to 3000 based on Salad's PvP Rating [Holy Croutons! Salad is #1, congrats!]) since the PvP Rating range is approximately 1/24th of the Might Range. Assuming two Enchants per item and current Gear and Gem expansion timelines, a more reasonable Historic Elo Rating would multiply the current Ratings by a factor of 30 or 40. People will always complain about Ratings and Matchings but this would give a more realistic separation of characters based on a historic Elo Rating Method when examining past Seasons (p.s. I cannot find Beta PvP Stats anywhere). It would increase the Ratings difference between current opponents, but would give the Matching Algorithm much finer parsing. This does not solve the problem of having one Rating versus all three classes or the confounding factor of Enchants. But PvP Rating is trying to do a great many jobs at the same time for a single variable.
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Re: Historic Elo Rating Range

Postby Bj_Knows » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:10 am

Posted from phone

Bj_Knows wrote:Even if Venan can get players into PvP in large numbers (I am betting on Bribery) every time the new Max Might goes up, the Tier 6 and Tier 11 Bundles get closer and closer together for PvP Rating. This no only confuses the historical records, but confuses the Elo based Matching Algorithm. A Tier 6 character has little chance versus a Tier 11 character all things being equal.


I need to track Gem costs in Marks also.

With every new Gear & Gem release decreasing the value of Tier 6 multipurpose Gear for a Historical Elo Rating,& the Rewards in Marks also decreasing for same Build (since Might is not factored into rewards), if Gem prices do not decrease by the same proportional amount, then PvP punishes people for saving Marks & not spending them immediately. It also decreases the value of the Daily Bonus once you have all the Recipes you want further discouraging PvP by most players.
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Season 3 Might vs Elo vs Gem Cost

Postby Bj_Knows » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:07 am

Subject
Season 3 Might vs Elo vs Gem Cost

Tuesday 2015-Oct-20

Maximum Might 72997 (thanks Cia!)
Maximum PvP Rating 2796 (nice Salad!)

Max Tier (Tier 7) Gem Cost 11,250 Marks

Daily Bonus 250 Marks
Battle Complete 30 Marks

Bronze III +10?
Silver III +30?
Gold III +50 (average sample Might 45990.8, minimum sample 30688, maximum sample 57512)

46000 Might and 19.73 Days of 4 PvP Bouts per day to earn one Tier 7 Gem or
789.47 Days of 4 PvP Bouts per day to earn full set of Tier 7 Gems
(690.78 Days for Lean War Mage with 5 empty Gem Slots)

Random Sampling of Gold III League
Mage, 35, 30688 Might, Coliseum T18 Staff, T19 Chest, 1298 Rating
Justicar, 35, 57512 Might, T19 1h Sword, T19 Chest, 1298 Rating
Mage, 35, 53703 Might, T19 Staff, T18 Chest, 1294 Rating
Justicar, 35, 38872 Might, T19 2h Sword, T19 Chest, 1289 Rating
Shadow Walker, 35, 49179 Might, T19 1h Sword, T19 Chest, 1289 Rating
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Historic Elo Rating Range and Base units

Postby Bj_Knows » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:51 pm

Subject
Historic Elo Rating Range and Base Units

Bj_Knows wrote:Even if Venan can get players into PvP in large numbers (I am betting on Bribery) every time the new Max Might goes up, the Tier 6 and Tier 11 Bundles get closer and closer together for PvP Rating. This no only confuses the historical records, but confuses the Elo based Matching Algorithm. A Tier 6 character has little chance versus a Tier 11 character all things being equal. While high Might does not guarantee high PvP Rating, high PvP Rating does indicate high Might.

. . .
It would increase the Ratings difference between current opponents, but would give the Matching Algorithm much finer parsing. This does not solve the problem of having one Rating versus all three classes or the confounding factor of Enchants. But PvP Rating is trying to do a great many jobs at the same time for a single variable


Elo is designed for a different environment than BoH. A) Setting up tournament brackets and B) measuring skill between opponents without a handicapping system. BoH does not use brackets, instead it uses the math to create "instant brackets" with Coliseum Matching. BoH does use a handicap system, different Builds and different Mights change a Bouts winner. Because of the BoH handicap system, 0 to 3000 PvP Rating Range does not sufficiently parse brackets for PvP. However, math does not care about base units, only the ratio of units (1 to 10) and the type of units (kilograms or centimeters).

Change the base unit of PvP Rating from 1 to 0.01. The PvP Rating Range would go from 0 to 3000 (best for Maximum Might 2700 or lower) to 0.00 to 3000.00 (good up to Maximum Might 270,000 )This will allow the current algorithm and Leagues to remain the same, but by rounding to 0.01 instead of 1, it will give a finer distinction between Tier 6 and Tier 11 Gear as the Maximum Might continues to increase.
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T5 or T6 Gems?

Postby Bj_Knows » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:40 am

Subject
Tier 5 or Tier 6/3 Gems

Posted from my iPhone

Need to re read Lean WM Cassidy's posts on Forum. Did I buy her T5 or T6 Haste Gems? I think it was some T6 & T3 Haste since that saved her buying T1- T5 Haste (T6) & let her Maximize her Helm & Pants in Haste percentage increase per GS instead of ratings increase per GS (T3)

MY PERSONAL OPINION
Wow, still have unchanged Inner Focus & Weapon Focus. First thing my Inquisitor got rid of was Inner Focus rank 1
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