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reasons for the raid changes

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:18 am
by Fizz_JohnJSal
New Subject
reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day Sticky

Old Subject
What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

I know everyone will say that the increase in wave count and the raid cap are Venan's way of forcing us to pay money to get Gold, but I'm curious what Venan's actual reasons are for making these changes. Have they ever really explained the purpose, other than saying for "balancing" purposes?

The longer raids can't be because the guild cap is now 100, because the raid cap contradicts that argument. And what was the purpose of the raid caps at all? Has Venan explained this?

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:58 am
by Little_Mike
In 1.5, there was essentially a 60 person cap since people outside your guild could not participate in your raids. One of our major features in 1.6 was the ability to allow outside members "merc" in raids. We wanted people to be able to join raids easier and to also streamline the community driven "mercing" behavior. We also wanted to have a light sense of guild competition. Members hopping around guilds to "merc" in raids was a behavior players used to work around a problem with our system. The new raid finder system addresses this.

However, allowing outside members into your raid essentially uncaps the raid. In order to have any balance at all in raids, we decided to implement caps.

Also, a common request before was to increase the guild member limits. Unfortunately, we could not do that since raids were not capped at the time. However, since we added the caps, we were able to increase the guild limit. Our intention of increasing the guild limit is not to pour more players into the existing raids as they were. By having a larger guild and the raid caps, guilds can now run multiple raids at the same time and to also have a good amount of players for your raids.

The system is still far from perfect. We have already pushed out our first round of updates, which we think makes raids more reasonable now. We will still evaluate our data and push out additional updates if necessary. I apologize to the people reverse engineering our numbers in advance.

There are also some common complaints such as the skunk merc issue. We will implement something in the next client update to mitigate this issue. We recommend only opening up merc slots when absolutely necessary since mercs generally have a lower efficiency. You can also password protect your raid so only people you want can join your raid.

As always, thanks for your feedback. Please check out the new raid balance changes we made today and try them out and let us know what you think.

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:36 am
by HoopyHobo
Thanks for that response, Mike. I appreciate the transparency regarding this issue.

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:19 am
by Stren
Thanks for the response Mike. I still question why raid cap were effectively lowered from 60 while at the same time raids were made significantly longer.

The raids seem to take into account the increased energy bc of guild loyalty. But what about for newer guilds and players? In all likelihood, they will not even be able to complete the lower level raids.

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:51 am
by Bbbb
There were some requests for longer guilds but if you had actually asked people that to get a larger guild that you would have raid caps, a lot of people would have said it wasn't worth it.

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:28 am
by Click
The least they could do is make the caps consistent and balance around that. Variable caps make it so that if you have people showing up to every raid they can, some people will just have to sit on a bench and run a lower end raid or quest if the current raid has a lower cap than the other ones. That's so fun and rewarding :cry:

Uncapped raids are obviously a bit much since they'd have to balance around 2/3 more raiders than before and adjust the wave counts upwards, thereby forcing almost every guild to recruit heavily all the time just to maintain enough raiders to complete raids consistently.

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:08 am
by Hashtag_QueenPippin
I'm impressed that this post got a response. Please increase the cap to at least 50 and/or not let mercs count against it but have a merc cap separate from members please. And also the time limits are ridiculous. Some toons might be lvl 25 w lots of might but are still too slow to really help finish w/in silver time. It's not fun anymore.

But the response is greatly appreciated

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:31 am
by Little_Mike
In 1.5, we were not comfortable with the number of raids hitting gold. Gold was meant to be some what of a challenge, and it wasn't in 1.5. We evaluated our data and set the caps, wave numbers, timings, and rewards accordingly. Obviously, we were a little off, especially with the beginning-mid tier raids. Essentially our expected efficiency was overtuned a bit.

The reason for the different cap amounts is we wanted to add a little spice to the raids, make guilds think more about which raids to run and why. If all the raids had the same 50 member cap and the same number of wave counts, then guilds would have no reason to run raids other than the ones that give the most rewards. Guilds could go for the lower cap, lower reward, easier raid, or they could go for the higher cap, higher reward raid? Maybe a mix of both. We are kind of curious how the community will approach this.

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:11 am
by Marconious
Wow...really? Uncomfortable with people getting gold?! God forbid players actually have fun playing your game! One of the really fun parts about running a raid was trying to get as many players in it as possible! Even top level guilds had to post ads in order to get gold. Some, like Party of Fore, did it very well and it was a blast to be a part or their raids. Gold was still a challenge for most guilds. Believe me, I was part of several guilds that, even with a good group of dedicated players, struggled to get Mercs to join our raids and struggled to even complete the raid. There is nothing more frustrating than spending all kinds of time and sheilds just to fail. Players quickly tire of failing, some would quit the game and guilds would disband. All you have done is increase the frustration level of casual players, like me, who will soon give up on this game. Its really a shame that this simply isn't as fun anymore as it was my favorite casual game.

Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:27 am
by Bbbb
Mike, at the high end, there is nothing to think about which raid to run. You had 2 (now 3) choices. Limiting GK to 30 isn't adding spice - it is a denial of service against the players.

Also, having been a former GM and current officer, the last thing that is needed is more guild management decisions and complexity. It is a game not a job.