reasons for the raid changes

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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby robiriort » Sat May 11, 2013 2:45 pm

The fun of boh for me was raiding with all kinds of cool people, both in my guild and on merc raids. I like my guild and mates very much but i have grown my toons further than most in my guild. I was raiding w/my guild early, then mercing bigger raids later to grow my toons. The # of available merc raids is way down. I can't find the raid I need, when I can do it. And reduced payout makes it hardly worth the effort. Changes in BoH make it impossible to grow my toons and my guild in the same time and place.

Am I going to have to abandon my friends and family to grow my own toons? Wouldn't it have been better to keep the old 60 raid cap system and add new tournament raid system for smaller raid teams? Tournament raids add this new guild competitiveness and still keeps old system in place.
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby Darkskye » Sun May 12, 2013 2:24 pm

I am a casual raider and I probably speak for most other casual raiders when I say that Venan needs to Increase the raid cap. I have logged in the game so many times only to find out that the raid is full. That forces me to just log out and play something else during the little free time I have in between work and rl. I'm still playing this game because I haven't found something else to keep me occupied but its just a matter of time till I find something as good in the App Store, which won't be so restrictive to my gaming style.
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby Myainsel » Sun May 12, 2013 3:10 pm

Darkskye wrote:I am a casual raider and I probably speak for most other casual raiders when I say that Venan needs to Increase the raid cap. I have logged in the game so many times only to find out that the raid is full. That forces me to just log out and play something else during the little free time I have in between work and rl. I'm still playing this game because I haven't found something else to keep me occupied but its just a matter of time till I find something as good in the App Store, which won't be so restrictive to my gaming style.


QFMFT
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby LUNABELLA » Sun May 12, 2013 5:27 pm

I understand the need of gold raids to be a challenge, and I can see some of the advantages of the caps, since they are so low for mid level guilds there is not even a need to look for Mercs since mostly they can fill the raid slots fully in guild & get an extra reward from not having Mercs in & the high end guilds can run several raids at the same time etc... All that I understand, however I have a serious issue with how long raids take now. Committed players are forced to sit down and raid for 3 or 4 hours straight for high level raids, 2 hours or so for mid level raids to achieve a silver. It is fine with me that silver should be the standard, but I just don't have that kind of time. Taking into account that once a player enters a raid can't be kicked and in most of raids there is about 5 players or more that can only empty once (or not even fully empty) the feasible gold just based on all players entering full & emptying all their regen is gone. So what you have is all the committed players having to sit straight playing for several hours to make it silver. Just not fun because of the stress it causes it might not even make silver.
I would have been happier with crazy low limits for gold such as the speed raid results for each raid, ie: 5 mins for gold CK but no caps on the number of raiders. That way my guild could still run CK in 35 to 45 mins and get silver vs now that we take 50 mins to 1h5 mins & make gold. Just because it is not fun now even though we are making gold, we are there trying to empty our regen stressed out wether we make it or not, while our guild members that got online later are stuck out of the raid. I am sorry we raid casually and for fun and the challenge that to others is exciting for me is like painfully getting my blood drained. If I am on my lunch break & my guild is running a raid I'd like to be able to empty my e bar once to help out instead of abstaining because I might not be able to get back to the raid & hence force the raid to be silver or bronze for everyone else or have to spend shields to cover for me. I am sorry, I just don't find it funny. Soon I will have a lot of players quitting because they can't commit the amount of time that a silver or bronze raids take. So even for those that don't care so much about the reward difference, the amount of time that a silver or bronze raid require is just a killer.
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby Dysastamasta » Mon May 13, 2013 4:02 am

I'm gonna throw my two cents in here... As a small guild we relied heavy on mercs with you limiting that and making the raids harder you have essentially killed small guilds. Also I feel less of a desire to purchase gs because my rewards for using them are diminished greatly. I now feel like in stead of an optional purchase to assist in completion of gold or silver you have made them a required purchase to complete a raid.. I'm disappointed that you feel you need to make it harder on the people who play this in down time
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby Grumpy_old_Man » Mon May 13, 2013 6:13 am

Darkhorse wrote:
Marcon wrote:Here's what Venan doesn't seem to get...failed raids dont get people excited to play this game more...successful raids do! Players are happier, so they stick around longer and play more. The raids were perfect in 1.5. Challenging and rewarding at the same time. Now they are longer, tedious, boring, and a diminished sense of comradely. It's simply less fun to play now.


After implementing our changes on Thursday our failure rates are WAY down in most raids. There are still a few that are higher than we would like, and we will continue to tweak those as we have more data. We'll continue to re-evaluate after this weekend.


But how many raids of each type actually are now starting - I suspect that the number of raids in TOTAL finishing is down - was that the plan? Failure rates were going to fall for a number of reasons - for the health of the game participation rate is probably more important.
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby LUNABELLA » Mon May 13, 2013 10:27 am

That is true, this weekend was extra valor & we did not do many more raids than usual, in an extra valor weekend we would normally have had a more intensive schedule. And we have relaxed the usual weekdays schedule for the next week. We are raiding minimums, only with 75% of raid cap confirmed assistance to each raid & if confirmations do not reach the 75% cap we cancel the raid. Also since a lot of my guild members are on the verge of quitting we are just burning GS till we run out, no point to just quit with a pocket full of gs so it's kind of goodbye raids unless we find a way to have fun with this game again.
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Re: What are the "official" reasons for the raid changes?

Postby Cassandra » Mon May 13, 2013 10:42 am

Marcon wrote:Wow...really? Uncomfortable with people getting gold?! God forbid players actually have fun playing your game! One of the really fun parts about running a raid was trying to get as many players in it as possible! Even top level guilds had to post ads in order to get gold. Some, like Party of Fore, did it very well and it was a blast to be a part or their raids. Gold was still a challenge for most guilds. Believe me, I was part of several guilds that, even with a good group of dedicated players, struggled to get Mercs to join our raids and struggled to even complete the raid. There is nothing more frustrating than spending all kinds of time and sheilds just to fail. Players quickly tire of failing, some would quit the game and guilds would disband. All you have done is increase the frustration level of casual players, like me, who will soon give up on this game. Its really a shame that this simply isn't as fun anymore as it was my favorite casual game.


AGREED :(
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby PIN_Evologist » Mon May 13, 2013 11:14 am

I see two distinct arguments here, that I believe need to be separated and tackled one at a time.

1 - "Silver is the new gold".
Okay. I'm cool with that. Most players are. But if silver is the new gold, then we have to put in the same amount of effort that we USED to put in for gold, for 20% less reward. This I'm not so cool with.

Solution: bump silver to a 100% reward, bronze to 75%. And bump gold rewards to 125% valor reward. This means top tier guilds and hardcore players are still getting their rapid growth, and you aren't hobbling the casual/standard player with slower character progression.

2 - "Raids are longer, harder and more effort."
Yeah, they are. And they are more of a logistical challenge. And they aren't as rewarding. Also, bosses vanish again instead of fading, so it's like they have 300 lives again (we lost that stagger effect somewhere in the patch).
But on the flip side, raids GET EASIER THE MORE YOU DO. Why? Guild loyalty.

It's there for a reason. The extra energy isn't just a pipe dream, it's there to compensate for the harder raids.

Solution - Maybe consider dropping the numbers a teeny bit, so that silver is achievable by 30 - 40% of the active guilds. Otherwise, keep it as is, and encourage loyalty rewards.

My $0.02
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Re: reasons for the raid changes-OFFICIAL RESPONSE 14 day St

Postby DnT_Eliel_ » Mon May 13, 2013 2:45 pm

A modest proposal to change raid dynamics to discourage 'dead hand' mercs:
  • Upon entering a raid, each merc is awarded 150 RPP.
  • Every 5 minutes that the raid progresses during which no new RPP were earned, 150 RPP is deducted from each merc's score (think of it as a 'disloyalty' marker--your guild is happy that you're helping other people, but if you're just over their chatting instead of raiding, then ...).
  • Mercs with negative RPP at the end of the raid are prohibited from joining raids until they earn enough RPP in their own guild to remove the deficit.
  • The total RPP from the raid is still calculated as before but the absolute value of the negative raid scored is added back to the total used to calculate total participation by the guild, recognizing that the guild members who completed the raid 'made up the difference'
This proposal recognizes that sometimes people have issues with their phones: If you have issues with your data connection or battery, you have a full 9 minutes and 59 seconds to resolve it before you start being negatively affected.

This would hopefully be a good way to keep mercs from ending up being spoilers. Especially at the current raid balances: one missing slot in a raid could mean the difference between spending lots of GS or not.
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