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Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:14 pm
by TCG_Garrison64
Hotasfire0Coolasice wrote:You guys have spirit attacks, we have nature. Both being magic, cannot be dodged. So if Justicar has the same magical capabilities, all is technically fair. Maybe add a reduce magic resist spell, or add that in to another, idk.


Play a Justicar and you'll see there's no comparison.

SW has Poison Cloud an aoe that does considerable damage along with an 80% chance at a nice dot and has a fairly quick cd. Toxic blade a single target attack with quick cd that does a lot of damage and stacks a dot. Acid Spray another aoe that does moderate damage and decreases nature damage resistance which helps your poisons. Each of these can crit at a near 100% chance which drastically increases their damage.

Justicar has Smite which is a single target attack that does a lot of damage but has no dot and a really long cd. Radiant Light which does moderate damage but has no dot. It can purge enemies of one beneficial effect but that typically does nothing for damage. Stunning blow, another single target attack that does reasonable damage and stuns for 3 secs but no dot. Justicars get the base 50% to crit so the damage comparison isn't even close. Justicars have no big aoe attack that is magical.

I play both classes every day. My SW is almost the same level as my Justicar.

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:05 am
by TCG_Garrison64
We just ran both onslaughts and my overall impression is that 6 energy per phase is too much. You should have left it at 4 and just shortened the timers. Both are a drag now. Before they were fast paced and exciting. Now even if you spend a ton of gs it's just a yawn fest.

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:51 am
by Bbbb
TCG_Garrison64 wrote:We just ran both onslaughts and my overall impression is that 6 energy per phase is too much. You should have left it at 4 and just shortened the timers. Both are a drag now. Before they were fast paced and exciting. Now even if you spend a ton of gs it's just a yawn fest.


I was in three different guilds yesterday that all said they were not going to run onslaught anymore after playing the new version (note: all three succeeded). Either do the above or try 5 energy instead.

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:42 am
by Pur3Aw3zom3n3zz
My guild stopped too. They did sc, which I don't have enough might for, and then stopped. So I didn't actually play a nerfed onslaught. But, based on what I heard, (from my guild and the forums,) changing it to 5 or 6 without time reduction would work. Both is just too much.

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:17 pm
by Hotasfire0Coolasice
TCG_Garrison64 wrote:
Hotasfire0Coolasice wrote:You guys have spirit attacks, we have nature. Both being magic, cannot be dodged. So if Justicar has the same magical capabilities, all is technically fair. Maybe add a reduce magic resist spell, or add that in to another, idk.


Play a Justicar and you'll see there's no comparison.

SW has Poison Cloud an aoe that does considerable damage along with an 80% chance at a nice dot and has a fairly quick cd. Toxic blade a single target attack with quick cd that does a lot of damage and stacks a dot. Acid Spray another aoe that does moderate damage and decreases nature damage resistance which helps your poisons. Each of these can crit at a near 100% chance which drastically increases their damage.

Justicar has Smite which is a single target attack that does a lot of damage but has no dot and a really long cd. Radiant Light which does moderate damage but has no dot. It can purge enemies of one beneficial effect but that typically does nothing for damage. Stunning blow, another single target attack that does reasonable damage and stuns for 3 secs but no dot. Justicars get the base 50% to crit so the damage comparison isn't even close. Justicars have no big aoe attack that is magical.

I play both classes every day. My SW is almost the same level as my Justicar.


Sorry, I should not have questioned you, I was looking at just abilities without researching. I saw 3 (I think) spirit abils, and that smite did 200% and noted it as DPS. Now I realize it's D without the PS. I heard they upped radiant though luckily.

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:21 pm
by Lord_Venan
A couple things:

First - we still consider these raids beta. We definitely don't have all the answers yet and nothing you are seeing is permanent. We want to find a way to make these fun, but not abusive and unbalanced. Based on the feedback on this thread (Great feedback by the way) we still have work to do.

Concerning balance tweaks - We can't balance onslaught without changing the classes. Particularly when one class is so much better than the others. Previously this was hidden by the game never measuring combat effectively beyond one energy spend. Now it's exposed though, so if we want to go down that road (and we do) we'll need to make changes. One way is to make the other classes more powerful, but we can only go so far with that.

We're planning for a major revamp of abilities and stats though, so we're holding back doing anything major until then. So in general, we're trying to keep the changes minor, see how they work, and then adjust from there. We didn't think that this round of changes would bring everything in balance, but we wanted to see if it would help at all. In case you're wondering prior to this last patch, the breakdown was something like this for onslaught raids:

SW - 1.25 encounter per energy
Mages - 1.09 encounters per energy
Just - .90 encounters per energy

Really these numbers need to be all in the same vicinity, or onslaught just doesn't work. And for reference, the normal number is .5 for traditional raids (hence the move to trying 6 energy). I agree it's a bit much though, so we'll be backing that down again most likely.

We don't have any absolute answers yet, but I wanted you to know we hear your feedback loud and clear and we'll continue to make adjustments until the game experience is what we think it should be (namely, fun!)

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:08 pm
by Marney
Not to suck up too much or anything, but I really appreciate the way devs here are so responsive to player concerns, and so careful to explain their reasoning and as much of their plans as possible, and back up both with clear facts and figures. It's much better than what I expect from most game companies. :) I may not always agree with every decision, but it's great to know why it was taken, and to know that someone's listening when we say hurrah or boo.

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:26 am
by Shorek
Isn't the valor split in half though for onslaught? So wouldn't u want a ratio of 1 and not .5 to make imbalance out valor wise?

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:51 am
by Musketeer
A big problem I have with the 6 energy thing - to ensure you don't lose your rpp bonus you have to park your toon in battle. That's fine with 2 energy, but if you're parking on a 6 energy investment that's a big chunk of energy you can't use yet, more so the smaller your energy bar is.

One of my toons on 26 energy would have just 3 rounds of onslaught before having to park and wait 10-15 minutes for recharge.

Re: Server Maintenance - August 10, 2012

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:09 pm
by Pur3Aw3zom3n3zz
Pfaff wrote:A big problem I have with the 6 energy thing - to ensure you don't lose your rpp bonus you have to park your toon in battle. That's fine with 2 energy, but if you're parking on a 6 energy investment that's a big chunk of energy you can't use yet, more so the smaller your energy bar is.

One of my toons on 26 energy would have just 3 rounds of onslaught before having to park and wait 10-15 minutes for recharge.
As long as you don't go into a new area. Like, a dungeon, the inn, or the shop, you keep your rpp multiplier.