Update 1.6.1 - May 23, 2013

A preview of the newest features and previous build notes.

Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Daeth » Thu May 16, 2013 1:36 pm

Darkhorse wrote:
  • The raid cap for all raids has been raised to 100 members!
  • With the change to all raid caps, some raids have had their number of waves adjusted. Here is the approximate number of raiders we have balanced each raid around (regardless of the targeted balance number, the raid cap will still be 100 guild members for each raid):
    • 10 Raiders: Gobblin' Goblins
    • 20 Raiders: The Plaguerider, Lockbolt's Reign
    • 25 Raiders: Wrath of the Overseer
    • 30 Raiders: Risen from the Depths, Crypt of Corruption, Attack at Dawn, Dark Lord Helion
    • 35 Raiders: Cursed Keep, Vale of the Ice Dragon, War of Fellmarsh
    • 40 Raiders: Horde of the Goblin King, Karnak's Final Stand, Battle of the Vile Gate
[*]All raids have had the number of mercenaries capped at 10 (with the exception of Gobblin' Goblins which is set to 5)


Just curious, when you say you have adjusted those raids around that number of raiders, what energy pool are you using as an average? Unless I'm wrong most folks that need to run Kraken and below don't have 42e each.
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Illy_the_Red » Thu May 16, 2013 1:40 pm

1) We felt 5 KV raids were too many and wanted to reduce this number to 3. Moving forward, expect to see at a max 3 raids per tier. As DH said, we want to provide a more focused KV raiding experience.
2) FS is the only raid where there is not a corresponding dungeon. CK, Vallus, and Trask all have their own dungeon versions so it made sense to keep those.


Did you get any feedback before this was decided? I and quite a few others enjoyed the Forgotten Sentinels raid. I don't think it not having a dungeon really matters at all.

I think what 1.6 should show you is that you need to test the waters with future changes - especially as PvP comes closer.

However, well done for taking all of the comments on board and tweaking it to keep everyone (well, mostly everyone) happy. Most people were extremely dissatisfied with the effect raid caps had on casual gamers - some may have enjoyed the challenge, but who wants to sit out a raid, unable to contribute?
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby _Christian » Thu May 16, 2013 1:42 pm

Little_Mike wrote:
Mikedr wrote:Ok but I'm worried on this not all guild have 100 members and much fewer that can raid in All raids how is this going to help smaller guilds finish raids not looking for gold every time but it would be nice to be able to finish


As we stated in the notes, each raid is balanced for a number of raiders far less than 100. You should still be able to complete The Plaguerider with only 20 people. The cap was increased to 100 so that casual raiders in your guild don't have to worry about taking up a spot in your raid.

Keep in mind, there is still a finite number of rewards per raid and if you zerg a raid with 100 people, everyone will be getting less rewards in general.
. Yeah, but with raid cooldowns of 30 minutes, who cares? Just start another one and kill it too :). Should be interesting to watch HJ go over 10 million power in a day or two ;). My only comment is that u guys need to focus on adding content, not taking it out. Like more of the t15 equipment like the ring that can take higher levels of enchantment perhaps? ;)
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Jîngle_Jâzz » Thu May 16, 2013 1:49 pm

My life really has no meaning without my beloved Purple Bot, can you put him in a raid as a boss please? Best piece of artwork Beekeo ever did. Can I have an autographed copy of his 8x11 photo? Can you send him to my house for my birthday in a few weeks?
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Darkhorse » Thu May 16, 2013 2:11 pm

Christian_GreySpoon wrote:
Little_Mike wrote:
Mikedr wrote:Ok but I'm worried on this not all guild have 100 members and much fewer that can raid in All raids how is this going to help smaller guilds finish raids not looking for gold every time but it would be nice to be able to finish


As we stated in the notes, each raid is balanced for a number of raiders far less than 100. You should still be able to complete The Plaguerider with only 20 people. The cap was increased to 100 so that casual raiders in your guild don't have to worry about taking up a spot in your raid.

Keep in mind, there is still a finite number of rewards per raid and if you zerg a raid with 100 people, everyone will be getting less rewards in general.
. Yeah, but with raid cooldowns of 30 minutes, who cares? Just start another one and kill it too :). Should be interesting to watch HJ go over 10 million power in a day or two ;). My only comment is that u guys need to focus on adding content, not taking it out. Like more of the t15 equipment like the ring that can take higher levels of enchantment perhaps? ;)


FYI, we're still evaluating the impact of having 30 minute cooldowns in our test environment. DO remember that these patch notes are preview notes and may change before release.
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Mershie_ » Thu May 16, 2013 2:30 pm

Quote" The raid cap for all raids has been raised to 100 members!
With the change to all raid caps, some raids have had their number of waves adjusted. Here is the approximate number of raiders we have balanced each raid around (regardless of the targeted balance number, the raid cap will still be 100 guild members for each raid):
10 Raiders: Gobblin' Goblins
20 Raiders: The Plaguerider, Lockbolt's Reign
25 Raiders: Wrath of the Overseer
30 Raiders: Risen from the Depths, Crypt of Corruption, Attack at Dawn, Dark Lord Helion
35 Raiders: Cursed Keep, Vale of the Ice Dragon, War of Fellmarsh
40 Raiders: Horde of the Goblin King, Karnak's Final Stand, Battle of the Vile Gate " End quote

---------------------

Reference Raids:
- Great news on raid caps.
- I'm totally disappointed with raid waves adjustments...the 1.5 kraken raid seemed balanced, 1.6 is just too long and boring! 400 kills for kraken! Using your numbers: 30 raiders with 36 energy (SV maxed) = if all 30 raiders had max energy, they could beat the kraken round only...and still need to regen twice for other waves which would take 3 hours...36/2=18 * 5 mins= 90 mins....
- The average guild seems to have about 50 toon members...
- My top 100 guild, which has been around since oct 2012, has 60 toons, with only 44 that can CK, with only 25 that can Vallus, with only 6 that can WoF! Yet all have same 'raiders' requirement? We are 10 short for Vallus raid which has been unlocked, with only 10 merc spots? Of which at least 20% will be parkers or squatters?
- I'm perplexed how increasing waves makes this game fun? Our guild did kraken daily....now we don't run it cause we can barely finish it! (And it's boring as hell... 3-4 hours of game time with only 20 mins of actual playing time....)
- what does might requirements have to do with SV raids if they all require same amount of raiders? I understand the levels of the monsters increases...but same amount of waves too based on raiders? Shouldn't kraken be easier to help toons with SV sigil and CK for the KV sigil?
- I'm trying to be constructive, but I'm at a loss where the number of raiders is coming from....what are the results from the database reference raid participations, completions, etc. there is no way kraken and helion would have the same numbers of raiders...historically, no way...

In closing, I don't think players mind burning for bragging rights, taking top spots, or increasing rewards from RPP. I would rather see raids that can be completed timely with lesser rewards than lengthy raids that may or may not finish...

I think the longevity of this game is in jeopardy if members find raids to time consuming and difficult....

PS: I'm happy that Venan responded with timely changes to the game from the 1.6 patch...and thankful that Venan is listening to players concerns about the game...
Last edited by Mershie_ on Thu May 16, 2013 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Darkskye » Thu May 16, 2013 2:38 pm

First of all I would like to say that you guys are doing good as far as taking feedback. I have played a lot of other games, and they made changes but did not listen to feedback so their player base disappeared and their game became stagnant.

I am glad to see Venan is committed to keeping this game great, even admitting when they messed up. You are very classy and I salute you! This tells me it is worth staying because I know you listen to your players.

Now, for FS and SC, I am a bit surprised. I know it is not popular, but if FS does not affect your servers, and isn't hard to maintain.... And if on the players side, it does not affect our gameplay, why remove it?

Most people go to McDonalds, Burger King, Jack in the Box, Carl's Jr, and Wendy's. But just because fewer people go to Fatburger, rally's, and Arby's, it does not mean those three smaller chains should close down.

They represent an alternative. Some people go to McDonalds once a day but would like to eat at Arby's at least once a month for variety. And other people like to eat at Fatburger all the time instead of going to the bigger chains. Sure they are a minority but they still like it and keeping Fatburger around won't destroy the restaurant business. Just your diet.

I have talked to so many players who joined a WoF raid even if they dont need the valor because they are so sick of raiding GK all the time. So focusing on raids might be a good idea to you, but it also tires us out and feels monotonous to us.

If it won't cost you a thing, please keep FS. I like that raid. Also I am for a smaller raid cap of 60, but a higher merc count is needed as well. Don't kill the merc environment!
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Swanstar » Thu May 16, 2013 2:50 pm

Please also tell me you don't balance raids with 42 e players in mind anymore and I will be happy :)

Also, I still think the expected raider numbers are a bit too high, particularly now that merc slots are limited to 10

Essentially, I think it's unreasonable to ask guilds to have 35 people on at one time before raid starts. Mercs solved this problem before. Now it won't as now the guild will be more responsible for providing members.

As a GM I have 20 people out of 84 who can do high might raids like vallus or FS. It's very hard to get all guild members might up as they aren't always around to raid. I am worried this change will make progression if the guild much much much much much much much much more difficult overall.

I can't force people to show up, raid, or merc. I think you're numbers are too high, but maybe I just liked pre 1.6 better. The biggest upset for me is that I spent a lot of time getting members up to snuff and now with the higher guild cap, I feel like I have to do it all over again just so we can compete on something we were doing easily just a few weeks earlier
Last edited by Swanstar on Thu May 23, 2013 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Little_Mike » Thu May 16, 2013 2:50 pm

Without going into too much detail, each raid is balanced in such a way that we take into account a player's expected max energy counts. Simply, the raiders in The Plaguerider have less energy than raiders in the Battle of Vile Gate in our balancing equations. In 1.6, we miscalculated how much expected energy players would have from guild loyalty. In 1.6.1, we have addressed this.
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Re: Update 1.6.1 - Preview

Postby Bbbb » Thu May 16, 2013 2:55 pm

I'm glad you all seem to be listening. I'm assuming we will probably have another round of raid balancing though because things will be off out of the gate. I'm so happy that the cooldown and loyalty changes are included.

SC was unpopular because it was such a chore for most people. However, I know there is a small group of people who love that raid.

But every person I know has a soft spot for FS, myself included. I know a lot of people who say it is their favorite raid in the game. I would vote for leaving it. Also, I thought 2-3 raids at the higher levels are too few given the turnout time.

One concern I have is that Karnak was supposedly balanced for 20 before. I hope you all didn't just make it twice as hard because it was too hard for 20 before.

Darkhorse, I am fine with caps on challenge raids, but not the day to day bread and butter raids.
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