Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Shekka » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:06 pm

Asandir wrote:Ok. I appear to have come to some point on this issue.

I have it on some authority that the reason for this change is that toons with haste of 90% is "too much" and hence the lowered cap of 75%. I suppose I can live with that if I have to - maybe partially cause I'm still below 75%.

The change to the elixir is because at 25% the elixir will be deemed "necessary" for pvp. Ummm, what??? And 15% won't be??? There's some seriously broken logic there.

Here's the fix venan, surprised you haven't considered it, cause its a no brainer to me - NO ELIXIR EFFECTS APPLY ON PVP!

Simple. And now you can leave the elixir alone, implement your cap reduction, keep people happier, and send me a cheque in the mail for me sorting your PR, and logic problems out.

Booyah.


100% agree, no elixir effects for PVP..that is a no brainier. It would be different if the game actually had a caster that could dish out buffs to other players. But it doesn't.

So, 90% is too much but 75% isn't? Even if it is a select few that are able to attain 90% haste, it doesn't mean that that is a good reason to drop it. Look at athletes. I bet over 90% of the ppl on this forum can't do the 100 meter dash in under 12.5 seconds. But for the other 10% that can, does that mean we should cripple them so that they too can not complete it in under that time?

Next week, another 24 hour notice will happen. This one will be for power pots and the might elixir. Dropping it down, cuz suddenly they just realized that by lowering haste and not adjusting other areas, that we can use the power pot to gain an extra 2-3k magic/melee and reallocate gems to haste (to max our base haste then use a haste elixir) and be more powerful then they expected..
Last edited by Shekka on Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Lovin_Spoon_Full » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:07 pm

Mikl wrote:
Killer_Spoon wrote:(Ad Hominem arguments)

Well, obviously you don't know the first thing about me.
I have to ask how much time, money and effort somebody needs to invest in the game to, in your opinion, be entitled to speak in this matter.
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Lovin_Spoon_Full » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:39 pm

Mikl wrote:
Killer_Spoon wrote:(Ad Hominem arguments)

Well, obviously you don't know the first thing about me.

I have to ask how much time, money and effort somebody needs to invest in the game to, in your opinion, be entitled to speak in this matter.


Ad hominem? You must be very sensitive if you failed to undrrstand the cold and impersonal rationale of my critique of your position -- which, interestingly you did not address. If you somehow took it to be a personal attack, I do apologize. I do not know you; I only know (and addressed) what you wrote in this forum. I dare say if we met it's quite probable we would like one another.

As for your entitlement to speak your mind on the matter, that is unquestioned and readily apparent. Again, it seems my point was lost. Consider my Porche-to-Volkswagon analogy. If you were a buyer and I was not, how much use would my opinion be and how would it be received by you? How much worth would a comment like 'great job, seller. Thanks for leveling the auto ownership playing field (though nothing could be further from the truth). And you, buyers, stop your whining!
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Lord_Venan » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:43 pm

The haste change was made as a balance change. Balance doesn't just mean balance relative to other classes but overall what we expect from the system in general.

Getting to 90% haste was an artifact from over-stacking of bonuses. It was completely unintended. Having one stat yield an overall damage increase of 10x is pretty absurd. Beyond absurd really. I'm ashamed it even made it into the game. Are we the only people who noticed that? I'm not sure how anyone can think it isn't. Honestly, 75% I think is still too high at 4x. Once we get to PvP, don't expect any of the current Haste behaviors to necessarily go over untouched either.

It got changed because we view it as a bug. That's really all there is to it. We happened to need to upgrade one of our servers this week and figured we'd use the downtime to address a few issues. There wasn't a big plan here, we kinda do things when we think we can get them done. If we weren't spending so much time getting the servers stable earlier this month we probably would have changed this back in January.

As for the whole marketing, evil intent, grand money grubbing thing - not the case. There is no recourse to get back the haste we just took away. It's not like we're selling a different hard cap to people. On the contrary, if that was our intent, we'd just continue to feed the game a bunch of ridiculous overpowered items, charge a lot of money for them, and never bother to fix anything. People don't mind being overpowered. Case in point - this thread. There is no real upside here to upsetting players.

In any event, we'll continue to make changes when we think things are out of whack. If you find yourself playing and notice that you are particularly overpowered - at some point our goal will be to nerf that. Especially once PvP gets in there. We are under no illusions that we've achieved some sort of balancing nirvana, we have a lot of work to do still. So there are no guarantees that we will continue to even support this level of haste in the future if we find it breaking something. All we can guarantee is that if you have something, you'll have more than the people around you who don't have it.

At the end of the day, BoH is a game that is produced by a grand total of six people, and the only way we're able to do that is to make decisions and go with them. They may not always be popular, but it's how the game is made. We do usually giveth when we taketh away though. You got me there. I guess giving you guys more stable servers doesn't count, so we're at least going to address the silver drop issue in CV raids. But most of the giving will be coming in 1.6.
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Little_Mike » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:01 pm

One of our database updates is taking a little longer than expected, so we will need to extend the maintenance window for an additional hour. However, we hope to bring the servers back up as soon as possible. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Bbbb » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:20 pm

Lord_Venan wrote: we're at least going to address the silver drop issue in CV raids.


Thank you. I had given up hope on that actually....
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Lovin_Spoon_Full » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:32 pm

Mikl wrote:
Grnm wrote:Balance? OK, so how does cutting down haste improve balance?

You follow this up with a wide battery of questions but I notice that you carefully manage to avoid asking yourself "do these adjustments help balancing haste buffs vs buffs to other stats?".
Well, here's your chance. What is your answer to that question?


That's an easy one: no. E.g., power/melee-magic.

Back to you, Mikl, how does the change improve 'balance'?
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby EJ_ItalyWarrior » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:39 pm

Lord_Venan wrote:I guess giving you guys more stable servers doesn't count, so we're at least going to address the silver drop issue in CV raids. But most of the giving will be coming in 1.6.


More stable servers are a given, the way it has to be.....not a kind gift to the players
And thank you so much to address the silver drop issue in CV raids....we all feel it was a real big issue.
The rest doesn't surprise me.....we do what we want, when we want...
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Mikl » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:57 pm

Killer_Spoon wrote:Back to you, Mikl, how does the change improve 'balance'?

I dont understand you explanation of why the adjustments doesn't improve the balance of haste buffs vs other buffs.

As to why I think they actually do, I have to partially repeat what Romain and Lord Venan has said previously in the thread: a Might elixir improves your damage output by 25% from base regardless of other buffs. A Haste elixir (previously) improved your damage output by 50% if your haste is at 50% due to other buffs, and if you had gotten your haste up to 65% the elixir would improve your damage output by 250%.

And yes Spoonkilla', I agree that if we met in person it's quite likely that we would like each other ;)
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Re: Server Maintenance - February 28, 2013

Postby Derrin_Watson » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:05 pm

Dare I suggest that we try it and see?
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