2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

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2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby Tacita » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:14 pm

(Blank Charts & Lists can be found at https://www.venan.com/boh_forum/viewtop ... =13&t=5315)
Ability List
0- Piercing Strike
3- Caltrops
0- Neurotoxic Stab
0- Quickness
1- Ensnare

0- Poison Cloud
1- Reflexive Strike
3- Lethal Poison
0- Garrote
3- Toxic Blade

0- Assassinate
0- Corrosive Blades
0- Sticky Grenade
0- Acid Spray
0- Riposte

0- Shadow Veil
0- Smoke Bomb
3- Death Wish
0- Critical Eye
3- Urgency
-------------------
17 points

If you are at level 32 you have 15 points left:

-you can put 1-3 points in Neurotoxic Stab. This attack reduces the melee/magic rating - the rating, not the damage - of your opponent and deals 75% weapon damage. Because it needs only 50% weapon speed to cast since 2.0.2 it's good to have as a gap filler.
-you can put 1-3 points in Quickness. Increases your dodge rating by 5/10/15% and increases offhand damage. If you choose this because of the dodge bonus, it works really good with Riposte 3. If you choose it because of the offhand bonus bonus it's better to take Piercing Strike 3 because the offhand bonus only affects the normal attack.
-you can put 1 or 2 more points in Ensnare.
-you can put 1-3 points in Corrosive Blades. The duration of the poison debuff got lowered with 2.0 so it's useful, especially because sometimes you will only have time for a reflexive strike, not for toxic blade/acid spray, which are the only attacks who have a 100% chance to apply Poisoned.
-you can put 1 point in Sticky Grenade. This is especially useful if your defend is on cooldown and your opponent is a nasty 2h justi who starts Seismic Slash with 0.53 left and you don't have a attack that is longer than 0.5s but shorter than 0.53s. Also this gives you one more chance to stack Poisoned after Ensnare.
-you can put 1-3 points in Acid Spray. It's good to have because your main attack is toxic blade and if you aren't a hybrid with Piercing Strike, you can cast this + Reflexive Strike if Toxic Blade is on cooldown. Also it poisones the enemy which is good for Toxic Blade.
-you can put 3 points in Riposte unless you totally hate how it screws up your rotation and how it feels sometimes like a 1% proc rate.
-you can put 1-3 points in Shadow Veil. 3 points if you want the 20% damage bonus after Ensnare. 1 or 2 if you also want the damage bonus, but then it's also good if you want to see what action comes next and all other short actions are on cooldown. The hide feature is rarely used because the timer is still visible but people seem to defend unknown attacks...
-you can put 1-3 points in Smoke bomb. It decreases all your cooldowns by 1s. If you use to throw Smoke Bomb right after Ensnare is over, 1 or 2 points might be better.

Hybrid option:
A hybrid SW would use Critical Eye 3, Piercing Strike 3 and maybe Sticky Grenade 3 additionally. Less/Zero points in Riposte & Urgency, Corrosive Blades.I tried this in the beginning of 2.0 but switched to "pure" Poison SW because I wanted Riposte, Urgency and full Lethal Poison. My record is now better than it was with a hybrid.

Gems:
Red slots: Hp and magic
Yellow slots: Haste, crit, maybe dodge
Blue slots: Crit power and/or resist. Personally I prefer to have the same magic and physical resist rating.
Grey slots: Magic, Hp, some yellow gems if you want.

Fighting:

->SW vs SW:
Most SW in PVP are melee. You will win if your Toxic Blade crits. If not, pray for their Grenade not to crit. 10k+ grenade crits should be possible. That' about the same damage of your Toxic Blade crits will do (I'm talking about 20k+ SWs here), more with Death Wish and even more with Death Wish and Shadow Veil.

->SW vs Justicar
Here is a point to change your focus. Justicars have Juggernaut which gives themn 100% status resist. However this won't help them against your Toxic Blade crits. Try to spam your attacks! This means: if your Smoke Bomb is ready and your Toxic Blade too, use Toxic Blade first if possible. I don't say don't use status attacks but those aren't what will kill them. One the other side it's important to always have Caltrops activated. Try to find a good balance between status attacks and damage.

->SW vs WM
DanceMonkey wrote:WM OP -.-

That's all you have to know. Pray for crits, dodge and IF you dodged pray even harder for Riposte.
BTW this happened when I searched for the quote above:
"The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: wm op."

v2.0.2 edit:
There's a 1s cooldown in PvP before stuns are usable. You have 2 options:
1) You decide to use Caltrops after Ensnare. This means that your opponent is faster than you or starts to knock you back. Both makes it harder to stun before he does or even to use your stun.
2) You use Caltrops before Ensnare. The combination Sticky Grenade + Neurotoxic Stab worked for me as well as Acid Spray + Neurotoxic Stab before Ensnare. If you get Urgency it's sometimes necessary to use Reflexive Strike as well. If you are a hybrid you can use Caltrops + Piercing Strike/Toxic Blade.

Damage:
Toxic Blade does 170% weapon damage. Piercing Strike 150% damage. Lethal Poison gives a 15% bonus. From my experience, a normal Toxic blade does as much damage like a Piercing Strike crit. A Toxic blade crit does insane damage. So far my largest hit is almost 20k. It's easy to get more than 30k in PVE.
Last edited by Tacita on Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby Nevla_Nom » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:19 am

Have you tried stacking as much health gems as possible?
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby Tacita » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:58 am

Nevla_Nom wrote:Have you tried stacking as much health gems as possible?


No. I won't try because I think it would lower my damage too much and I would lose some crit and dodge. And I can't try because my inventory is almost full.
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby Nevla_Nom » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:05 pm

Tacita wrote:
Nevla_Nom wrote:Have you tried stacking as much health gems as possible?


No. I won't try because I think it would lower my damage too much and I would lose some crit and dodge. And I can't try because my inventory is almost full.


Well that's what I thought as a mage, but then I realized health is the only stat not affected by diminishing return, so it's pretty much more valuable than anything else. I've put as many health gems as I can in my char.
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby EricM » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:21 pm

+1 to nevla on this. HP really makes a huge difference since 1) damage is subjected to diminishing returns (via melee/magic/crit/power stats) and 2) damage can be mitigated. Whereas hp can't be mitigated or is subject to diminishing returns. Always a good investment.
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby Tacita » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:34 am

EricM wrote:+1 to nevla on this. HP really makes a huge difference since 1) damage is subjected to diminishing returns (via melee/magic/crit/power stats) and 2) damage can be mitigated. Whereas hp can't be mitigated or is subject to diminishing returns. Always a good investment.

A level 32 has 5 427 hp without guild favor. That's 16 282 hp in PvP. WMs with Staff Mastery 3 have 18 725 hp. Their max hp with t6 gems would be: 786*3*1.15*8 + 576*3*1.15*4 + 386*3*1.15*6 + 18725 = 56 357; 640*3*1.15*8 + 480*3*1.15*4 + 320*3*1.15*6 + 18725 = 49 637 with t5 gems.
SWs can only reach 768*6*3 + 576*4*3 + 384*10*3 + 16 282 = 48 538 with t6 gems, 640*6*3 + 480*4*3 + 320*10*3 + 16 282 = 43 162 with t5 gems.
Sure, hp increase linear and damage not. But the less hp, the more damage and the harder it is to gain more damage. Also with more hp and less damage it's easier to get more damage. I think there should be a point with enough hp to survive a fight long enough to deal enough damage to win (This from my experience as a SW...I'm not sure if it's the same for the other classes, but for WMs with their 15% bonus hp and damage increasing debuffs it's probably easier to put health gems in every slot).
So far I have health gems in the x3 and x4 slots. The rest are magic, dodge and crit. This means I would loose ≈6% dodge, ≈7% crit and 344 magic points. That would be around 344*1.1*1.12*1.088*1.7 = 783 less damage per Toxic Blade but 320*3*5 = 4800 more hp (with t5 gems), 320*3*10 = 9600 more hp if I changed to full hp.
On the other hand it makes a big difference if I crit or not (death wish crits are awesome!) and if I dodge a 5k Piercing Strike or a 8k Brutal! Also I already have 33 444 hp, which is more than most people have.
But I agree, it could be worth trying to change all magic gems to health.
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby ZacaJoJo » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:48 am

Hi,

I was reading your post with interest and, as I love challenge, I decided to start building a SW :lol:

I am currently level 11, and I am planning on doing something like this:

0- Piercing Strike
3- Caltrops
1- Neurotoxic Stab
3- Quickness
1- Ensnare

0- Poison Cloud
1- Reflexive Strike
3- Lethal Poison
0- Garrote
3- Toxic Blade

0- Assassinate
0- Corrosive Blades
1- Sticky Grenade
3- Acid Spray
3- Riposte

3- Shadow Veil
1- Smoke Bomb
3- Death Wish
0- Critical Eye
3- Urgency

With:

Red: only HP
Yellow: Haste & Crit
Blue: Magic & Physic resists (1:1)

And: Axe + Dagger

My questions are:

- Is this a viable build? Do you have any advice?
- Where do you put your token? Magic, Dodge, Haste, Crit?
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby Tacita » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:30 pm

ZacaJoJo wrote:Is this a viable build? Do you have any advice?

From what I see this should work well. Personally I would like to have at least 1 point in Corrosive Blades and 1 or 2 more in Smoke Bomb, so I would take some off Acid Spray and/or Shadow Veil. But in the end that's your decision. :)

ZacaJoJo wrote:Where do you put your token? Magic, Dodge, Haste, Crit?

I spread them evenly on every tome (maybe not the best strategy for PvP).
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby gmahadhika » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:24 pm

What about this build Tacita:

0- Piercing Strike
3- Caltrops
1- Neurotoxic Stab
3- Quickness
3- Ensnare

1- Poison Cloud
1- Reflexive Strike
3- Lethal Poison
0- Garrote
3- Toxic Blade

0- Assassinate
1- Corrosive Blades
3- Sticky Grenade
0- Acid Spray
3- Riposte

0- Shadow Veil
1- Smoke Bomb
0- Death Wish
3- Critical Eye
3- Urgency

I understand that Death Wish is a good skill. But it doesn't change the fact that it REQUIRES me dying in order to get the effect. So I alternate it with max Critical Eye and Sticky Grenade. Is this a viable build? Or does in high Might PVP Death Wish is more profitable? Thanks in advance.
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Re: 2.0 Poison SW (PVP)

Postby Tacita » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:39 pm

gmahadhika wrote:Or does in high Might PVP Death Wish is more profitable?

Higher might means higher hp (usually something between 25k and 45k) and so a better use of death wish. Even with 20k hp you would have Death Wish from 5k and below. If you can manage not to get killled in this time it can be a real game changer, even if it looks like you've already lost the match.

Besides the only thing I wonder about is why you have 1 point in Poison Cloud? Especially with 3 points in Ensnare it can be very annoying because it's hard to use it with 3 DoTs on your opponent. You won't be able to use it much in between stun, knockback and defend because you have Sticky Grenade.
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