Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Saraa » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:59 am

Ily, you have a fantastic way of twisting the words I wrote and taking them completely out of context. You also continue to overlook or address the fact that I have run SW through P3 and regardless of what pots are best have noticed little difference in overall difficulty and total round performance. DW is actually viable so long as buffs stay up and you can keep him out of rampage(this is where all that extra haste comes into play).
No one has said that dying was unusual and yes, it has actually decreased substantially since SR first came out and again after the nerf. I've merced with almost every guild that runs SR regularly on their schedule, this isn't coming from just one or 2 guilds. Also, I previously stated that P3, not the whole raid, was originally geared towards high might, end game toons. Why shouldn't it be? Are toons that have either spent lots and lots and lots of time or money not allowed to be challenged anymore because it's not "fair" for the majority. It's supposed to be the hardest phase in the game and if you can't run it, especially as it is now, get rid of all your energy in p1&2 and keep working on getting your toon mighty enough to be successful. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I never disagreed that the nerf to melee builds was OK or warranted but I know that both SW and Justi overwhelmingly ran melee builds in OS prior to the new raids thus my speculation as to why running nature/spirit was "forced" upon us. How exactly is making melee builds more viable for the new raids going to balance things better, when you still have the same fundamental problems you've already described?
WM have no viable melee build so the only fair comparison to make is if he was highly resistive to fire or ice, not both. Would I be initially happy about that, probably not, but at least it presents a new, unique challenge that can be adapted to. Maybe overall output/performance would decrease but at least it would still present as a unique challenge.
Again, no one, including myself, asked for or wanted an entire raid geared towards only the top might toons but there's also nothing wrong with wanting and having a single phase that's geared towards being successful for toons over 60k might.
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Illy_the_Red » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:57 am

Hi_Im_Sara wrote:Ily, you have a fantastic way of twisting the words I wrote and taking them completely out of context. You also continue to overlook or address the fact that I have run SW through P3 and regardless of what pots are best have noticed little difference in overall difficulty and total round performance. DW is actually viable so long as buffs stay up and you can keep him out of rampage(this is where all that extra haste comes into play).
No one has said that dying was unusual and yes, it has actually decreased substantially since SR first came out and again after the nerf. I've merced with almost every guild that runs SR regularly on their schedule, this isn't coming from just one or 2 guilds. Also, I previously stated that P3, not the whole raid, was originally geared towards high might, end game toons. Why shouldn't it be? Are toons that have either spent lots and lots and lots of time or money not allowed to be challenged anymore because it's not "fair" for the majority. It's supposed to be the hardest phase in the game and if you can't run it, especially as it is now, get rid of all your energy in p1&2 and keep working on getting your toon mighty enough to be successful. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I never disagreed that the nerf to melee builds was OK or warranted but I know that both SW and Justi overwhelmingly ran melee builds in OS prior to the new raids thus my speculation as to why running nature/spirit was "forced" upon us. How exactly is making melee builds more viable for the new raids going to balance things better, when you still have the same fundamental problems you've already described?
WM have no viable melee build so the only fair comparison to make is if he was highly resistive to fire or ice, not both. Would I be initially happy about that, probably not, but at least it presents a new, unique challenge that can be adapted to. Maybe overall output/performance would decrease but at least it would still present as a unique challenge.
Again, no one, including myself, asked for or wanted an entire raid geared towards only the top might toons but there's also nothing wrong with wanting and having a single phase that's geared towards being successful for toons over 60k might.


Not twisting any words deliberately at all. If you think so, it might help to scan-read your post just to check for anything that might be misinterpreted. I usually try and check that I'm not implying something I don't mean.

I'm glad you've explained yourself in greater detail though, we actually agree on most of it. One place where you're incorrect though is that pots etc make no difference...crit pots (I've spoken to other high might toons of other classes who also agree) are probably of greatest benefit, with also dodge pots helping for SWs. DW is only viable if you're able to keep him from killing you, and since he is capable of 4000-5000k damage in two actions across perhaps .4s of time... that alone makes DW unviable unless you're also elixired up with the four combat ones. I'm guessing you can afford this yourself, but many can't.

Death Wish is perfectly useable in Spider Queen too, not encountered the same issues there. Can't use Melee, has to be Poison.

I guess experiences vary because I've seen (because they type it in chat) plenty of people dying and not being particularly thrilled about it on my travels. Guess I'll have to merc the same raids.

That was the comparison I was making - if your ice or fire attacks bounced off him to the degree melee ones do, there'd be big protests. It would've been simpler for him to have similar resists to all damage and just more defence, or more health. There isn't really any need for him (or Sha'lyn) to be more resistant to physical attacks. To make a boss harder, up his defence, health and damage.

The assumption seems to be this is from the POV of a low powered toon - far from it. Almost 67k, very effective in all previous OS phases, usually do very well when I can give OS full attention or use elixirs/buffs. It's not like there's a huge amount of room for growth when you have full gems, full training, top gear, enchants at VII or VIII (raising those will only give small percentage movements and cost huge amounts of GS for gravers). So this isn't a toon where you know there is room to grow or better gear/gems to aim for. I very much wanted a high level OS, but on the curve of the difficulty we've seen before in all the previous raids. As a gamer, it feels like 'artificial difficulty' in the way some old console games would be deliberately hugely difficult, making you learn rote moves/techniques to negotiate the hazards.

As a contrast, I'm doing both raids with my less mighty Justicar and understandably not destroying it - that toon still needs many gems/enchants/HT.
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Sigèé » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:52 am

:roll:
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Jumper » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:03 am

Wait wait wait wait!!!!!!!!!

Can we get back to Ily giving me bacon????? That sounds more fun!
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Gary_ » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:10 am

For the most part, as a 3 year button pushing Spiricar, I have no idea what or how you folks have so much intellect regarding the outputs of either of these awesome raids. I do, however, appreciate for the most part the brilliance that each of you have towards the game and the undying loyalty to making it better. I gotta tell you it's been a long time since I've enjoyed reading a thread as much as this one. Everyone has made great points on each side and unlike other threads have kept it civil. The real shame is how few get a chance to learn from some of the best and smartest players in the game because they do not log into the forums. The only thing, outside of keep the posts coming, that I ask is to continue to keep this civil. I know the developers are reading it and further know they are gleaning ideas for improvement from it. As always, everyone will not be pleased with the changes, but there will be changes nonetheless. Thanks to all of you!!!
:D
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Bimbosigliere » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:40 am

REDACTED
Last edited by Bimbosigliere on Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Illy_the_Red » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:23 am

Lord_Garic wrote:For the most part, as a 3 year button pushing Spiricar, I have no idea what or how you folks have so much intellect regarding the outputs of either of these awesome raids. I do, however, appreciate for the most part the brilliance that each of you have towards the game and the undying loyalty to making it better. I gotta tell you it's been a long time since I've enjoyed reading a thread as much as this one. Everyone has made great points on each side and unlike other threads have kept it civil. The real shame is how few get a chance to learn from some of the best and smartest players in the game because they do not log into the forums. The only thing, outside of keep the posts coming, that I ask is to continue to keep this civil. I know the developers are reading it and further know they are gleaning ideas for improvement from it. As always, everyone will not be pleased with the changes, but there will be changes nonetheless. Thanks to all of you!!!
:D


;-)
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Gary_ » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:28 pm

Woosticar?!? I am crushed :cry:
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Jawarhello » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:33 pm

The four combat elixirs are absolutely not necessary. They help, obviously, but they aren't needed. I've been able to survive in p3 with a 57k sw with only a haste elixir. Also, 2 attacks don't do 5k damage. You might take 4k damage if both hits are crits, but I personally can't recall taking that much damage in two hits. I manage to run dw without any elixirs so with a haste elixir, it is definitely viable. All you really need to do is make sure you are at 2k health when he's about to hit you and with smoke bomb to reduce cooldown on health pots, that is doable. And when he goes into rampage, you don't stay in DW, you heal close to full and if you utilize your skills and runes you should survive just fine and end up in DW again once his rampage ends.

I actually haven't tried p3 since they recently adjusted because I really have no reason to raid but I assume that it must be even more manageable now.
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Re: Server Maintenance - March 14th, 2016

Postby Illy_the_Red » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:40 pm

Jawarhello wrote:The four combat elixirs are absolutely not necessary. They help, obviously, but they aren't needed. I've been able to survive in p3 with a 57k sw with only a haste elixir. Also, 2 attacks don't do 5k damage. You might take 4k damage if both hits are crits, but I personally can't recall taking that much damage in two hits. I manage to run dw without any elixirs so with a haste elixir, it is definitely viable. All you really need to do is make sure you are at 2k health when he's about to hit you and with smoke bomb to reduce cooldown on health pots, that is doable. And when he goes into rampage, you don't stay in DW, you heal close to full and if you utilize your skills and runes you should survive just fine and end up in DW again once his rampage ends.

I actually haven't tried p3 since they recently adjusted because I really have no reason to raid but I assume that it must be even more manageable now.


Definite proof required. You'll have to post build/potion details and/or screenshots. I'm way above 57k and have only been able to make DW on Melee work via the four elixirs. That means haste, power, protection and health. If you did this with a Melee build I'm even more sceptical. Unless by 'survive' you mean also did poor rpp (5-10 kills - yes I am aware 5 is breaking even).

Two attacks can do 4-5k damage in rampage. I know this from keeping a constant check on health while running it with poison with no health buffs (and from the evidence of my eyes reading the numbers). He doesn't always do that damage by any stretch, but when rampage kicks in, you do need to heal. Now I'm slowly building for phys resist, and with Phys resist gems that may change a little.

Apart from that, any SW player would know to use smoke to cool down health pots faster.
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